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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

paciencia de chinos

English translation:

endless patience

Added to glossary by Charles Davis
Jan 5, 2016 11:31
8 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term

“paciencia de chinos”

Spanish to English Marketing Food & Drink New fruit variety
SPAIN. Another relatively idle query. I wonder how fellow translators would approach this term, which might be considered politically incorrect or even offensive in some quarters. I considered "the patience of Job", but then the Oriental angle would be "lost in translation"...

"La empresa … comienza el año 2016 con el lanzamiento de dos nuevas (fruit varieties)... La primera se llama XXXX que, con una gráfica de cuidada factura oriental, comunica toda la tradición, delicadeza, mimo y “paciencia de chinos” que se debe tener para lograr (type of fruit) en perfecto estado. "
Proposed translations (English)
4 +8 endless patience
4 +2 the patience of a saint
3 +1 oriental patience
3 +1 patience of Confucius
3 Zen-like patience
Change log

Jan 7, 2016 12:47: Charles Davis Created KOG entry

Discussion

neilmac (asker) Jan 6, 2016:
Cheers Charles :) I must admit I'm not Noah Webster's biggest fan at the best of times, but my nominal use of "painstaking" on this occasion (I'm still considering using it) is pecatta minuta compared to most of the howlers in the texts from this particular client, some of which come ready "translated" by sundry non-natives for revision and repair. I just hope I haven't broken any site rules by bringing up the PC question, which really does puzzle me. BTW I'm going for your "endless" suggestion, although James C's "zen-like" is tempting....
Charles Davis Jan 5, 2016:
painstaking Merriam-Webster does appear to list this word as a noun. I find this very surprising and I'm sure I've never seen or heard it used as anything but an adjective. Other dictionaries I've checked all give it as an adjective.
Charles Davis Jan 5, 2016:
"Political correctness" Not only are standards on colloquial use of gender and racial/national stereotypes stricter in the UK than in Spain, in my experience (and probably stricter still in the US, I suspect), mainstream usage is becoming stricter in Spain, I would say, and expressions that used to be normal only a generation ago are much less so now.
neilmac (asker) Jan 5, 2016:
FWIW I've just googled the name (which I'd better not mention here, just in case) of the melon variety in question, and all that appear are references to a rather buxom Bollywood starlet of the same name, and nothing remotely Chinese. I think at the end of the day I'll probably play it safe with Charles' suggestion "endless"...
neilmac (asker) Jan 5, 2016:
PC or not PC, that is the question :) I’m also interested in the difference in the notions of political correctness between Spain and the UK, as, for example, some TV advertising that I’ve seen in Spain would definitely not pass muster back home. And expressions like “trabajar como chinos /merienda de negros / hacer(se) el sueco” are quite common in Spain…
neilmac (asker) Jan 5, 2016:
@Wendy Merriam-Webster definition of painstaking : the action of taking pains : diligent care and effort. So, apparently it can be used as a noun, although it's most often seen as an adjective/adverb.
neilmac (asker) Jan 5, 2016:
@Charles and Phil Lighten up guys! I already stated it was an idle query. I just wanted to see what fellow prozians thought. I'm taking everyone's suggestions on board and won't be sending the translation off until later this week. As it happens, I’ve just returned from two weeks away, where I’ve been able to brainstorm family and friends on things like this, and am now working on my own again at least until next week. I suppose I’m just missing being able to bounce off people, and thought I’d made it quite clear that this, and my previous posting, were to be taken lightheartedly and nothing to get po-faced or stroppy about. Please feel free not to contribute or comment if you think my queries unworthy. My membership subscription is up in 30 days and given the reception I’m getting today, I don’t know if it will be worth paying for another year. Heigh ho…
Jessica Noyes Jan 5, 2016:
In North America, "Oriental," at least as referring to individuals or food, is considered offensive by many Asians, as they prefer to be called. (And yes, I know that Asia is a very wide net, but there you have it.
Wendy Streitparth Jan 5, 2016:
@ Neil: Don't like communicates much. I think conveys would be better. And painstaking what? Maybe dedication?
neilmac (asker) Jan 5, 2016:
@Carol Sounds tasty, although my text is actually about melons... :)
Carol Gullidge Jan 5, 2016:
It may be totally irrelevant, Or worth bearing in mind that chinos are a fruit in themselves (like a sort of mis-shapen but particularly delicious and juicy peach)

Proposed translations

+8
14 mins
Selected

endless patience

I can't see any advantage in reproducing the reference, which is not idiomatic in English anyway, quite apart from the PC angle. The patience of Job is a set phrase but I don't think it's suitable, because it implies withstanding endless misfortune and suffering. Admittedly something is "lost in translation" by simply discarding the set phrase but nothing of any real importance or value, in my opinion.

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Note added at 19 mins (2016-01-05 11:50:50 GMT)
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The thing is, as I say, that the idiomatic expressions that spring to mind in English, as with Job, tend to be used to convey the idea of bearing up in highly trying and exasperating circumstances. I don't think there's any such suggestion in the original and that introducing it is undesirable. I don't think you want to suggest that growing melons is an activity that would drive ordinary people crazy; it's just that you need to be very patient.

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Note added at 25 mins (2016-01-05 11:56:26 GMT)
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I suppose that if you really want to keep the oriental allusion, to pick up on "cuidada factura oriental" but without repeating "oriental", you could say "the patience of Buddha" or "the patience of a Zen master", but it would be a bit forced really. I'd discard it.

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Note added at 36 mins (2016-01-05 12:07:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hang on a minute, Neil: what are we doing here? Are we trying to guess what you've already thought of and are not going to change, or are we putting forward suggestions for you to consider and possibly adopt if you find them convincing? If it's the former, please say so in advance, because that's a game I'm not interested in playing.

I think "Chinese patience" sounds pretty strange, personally, but there you go.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2016-01-05 16:57:54 GMT)
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Sorry, Neil; reading back I came across as more hoity-toity than I intended. It's just that when I read your note it sounded as though there was a predetermined "right" answer, which didn't seem fair to me. I don't think there's anything wrong with a light-hearted query like this, provided the result is not decided in advance, because otherwise it seems like a waste of time. But please don't feel you're being got at! Pax :)
Note from asker:
I wasn't going to reveal my solution until later, but here goes. (I know it's a card game, but hey! I think it works).
"... is called Xxx, which, with a carefully designed oriental logo, communicates all the tradition, delicacy, painstaking and “Chinese patience” needed to achieve the perfect Galia melon."
Peer comment(s):
agree liz askew : This works best in my opinion
1 hr
Thanks very much, Liz, and Happy New Year! (if I haven't said yet; you lose track).
agree Maria Mastruzzo
1 hr
Many thanks, Maria :)
agree philgoddard : Not sure why the asker posted this question if he'd already made up his mind, but I don't think "Chinese patience" works at all.
2 hrs
Thanks, Phil!
agree Karen Dinicola : Even though patience is a virtue, I would definitely avoid stereotyping Asians as such -- especially in a marketing text. This is a nice option.
2 hrs
Many thanks :)
agree Robert Forstag : This seems to be the solution that works best here. Both "patience of Job" and "patience of a saint" have moral connotations that don't apply in the context of a game (!). I don't see the other proposed solutions as working either.
4 hrs
Many thanks, Robert :)
agree Kim Edwards-Buarque
10 hrs
Thanks, Kim :)
agree Yvonne Gallagher : absolutely agree with all points made here
11 hrs
Thanks very much :)
agree Christian [email protected] : Saints and Job are biblical/Christian, not "oriental". I think your proposal is the best. No need to complicate things.
1 day 9 hrs
Thank you, Christian, and Happy New Year :)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everyone for the help and comments. A special mention to Wendy for "conveys", which I probably wouldn't have come up with myself ..."
+1
4 mins

oriental patience

Perhaps?? Marginally less politically incorrect.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2016-01-05 11:37:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hadn't noticed "factura oriental", so perhaps not such a good idea.
Note from asker:
Spanish certainly seems to be less... uptight about this sort of thing.
Peer comment(s):
agree patinba : Perhaps using "eastern" for "oriental"?
52 mins
Something went wrong...
+2
13 mins

the patience of a saint

This way you can maintain the use of an idiom without offending anyone.
Note from asker:
Well, I'd considered "the patience of Job", but then the Oriental angle would be "lost in translation"... I've actually decided on my own solution, but thought it'd be interesting to brainstorm you guys.
Peer comment(s):
agree Christina McGown
1 hr
agree Mary Gardner Hume
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

patience of Confucius

Most westeners (who don't have the patience of Confucius) will agree, two and a half hours is enough time to spend in a theatre,
http://www.impactservices.net.au/movies/redcliff.htm

Anyone who says that the tweezers are easy to handle either has the patience of Confucius or the dexterity of a surgeon.
http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5776/2/v...

... so maybe just be happy with a reasonable facsimile you can make in your house, without a centuries-old recipe and the patience of Confucius.
https://thechefsprerogative.wordpress.com/
Note from asker:
I don't agree with Phil - I see this as a thinly-veiled euphemistic ethnic reference, although I do like it. I might pinch your "convey" suggestion too ;)
PS: So far, I'm torn between endless and Confucian...
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : "Confucian patience" would work as it's not an ethnic reference.
1 hr
Thanks, Phil.
Something went wrong...
18 hrs

Zen-like patience

Another suggestion, with some examples here:

https://www.google.com/search?q="zen-like patience"&ie=utf-8...
Note from asker:
I do like this, although I may keep in reserve for things like motorcycle maintenance... ;)
Something went wrong...
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