Dec 11, 2018 22:34
5 yrs ago
10 viewers *
Spanish term
poder formal, carta-poder o simple carta comercial
Spanish to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Articles of Incorporation / Bylaws
I am unsure about how to translate the following phrase which appears in Articles of Incorporation:
La representación podrá conferirse por poder formal, por carta-poder o simple carta comercial dirigida a su representado, pero siempre a la aceptación de la Asamblea.
My attempt:
The representation can be conferred by formal power, power of attorney or simple commercial letter addressed to his/her representative, but always at the acceptance of the Shareholders' Meeting.
I'm confused by 'poder formal' and 'carta-poder', I could not find the difference between them. Is there actually any difference in English? Or is it redundant and should I just translate it as:
"...by formal power of attorney or simple commercial letter..."
Thanks in advance.
La representación podrá conferirse por poder formal, por carta-poder o simple carta comercial dirigida a su representado, pero siempre a la aceptación de la Asamblea.
My attempt:
The representation can be conferred by formal power, power of attorney or simple commercial letter addressed to his/her representative, but always at the acceptance of the Shareholders' Meeting.
I'm confused by 'poder formal' and 'carta-poder', I could not find the difference between them. Is there actually any difference in English? Or is it redundant and should I just translate it as:
"...by formal power of attorney or simple commercial letter..."
Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations
+5
2 hrs
Selected
formal power of attorney, proxy or plain/uncertified business letter
I suspect what they mean by "formal" is a "poder notarial", i.e., a power of attorney granted before a notary, but let's leave it at "formal" since this isn't mentioned explicitly. Perhaps I'm wrong, as I have little experience with Honduran law, but this seems to me a fairly vague wording.
"Carta-poder" usually means a pro forma letter of authorisation or limited power of attorney, i.e., one that you might buy a template for in a stationer's shop or office supplies store (at least here in Mexico you can). I would translate it as "proxy" or "letter of proxy" to differentiate it from the more formal and broader "power of attorney".
Proxies are agency agreements, the voting member being the principal and the proxy-holder, the agent.
In some ways, the proxy is much like a limited power of attorney in that it empowers the agent to act as if he or she was the principal at the relevant meeting at which the proxy is for. But unlike a power of attorney, the form of a proxy is generally much simpler and does not require, as might a power of attorney in most jurisdictions, onerous form requirements.
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/P/Proxy.aspx
The last one, I presume, is just a plain business letter, though I don't understand the meaning of "dirigida a su representado" here. As Alba mentioned above, "representado" means the person/entity being represented, not the representative.
To you point about whether it's redundant: it depends on your viewpoint. If you believe "power of attorney" covers all powers of attorney, whether limited, general, notarized or simply witnessed by another party, then yes, it's redundant.
The question is, like powers of attorney themselves, whether to try to cover all possibilities or scenarios, no matter how redundant they may be, or whether to leave the wording as ambiguous as possible.
Personally, when translating legal documents, I am for translating as much of the original wording (and even redundancy) as possible even as I attempt to enhance the general readability of the output.
"Carta-poder" usually means a pro forma letter of authorisation or limited power of attorney, i.e., one that you might buy a template for in a stationer's shop or office supplies store (at least here in Mexico you can). I would translate it as "proxy" or "letter of proxy" to differentiate it from the more formal and broader "power of attorney".
Proxies are agency agreements, the voting member being the principal and the proxy-holder, the agent.
In some ways, the proxy is much like a limited power of attorney in that it empowers the agent to act as if he or she was the principal at the relevant meeting at which the proxy is for. But unlike a power of attorney, the form of a proxy is generally much simpler and does not require, as might a power of attorney in most jurisdictions, onerous form requirements.
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/P/Proxy.aspx
The last one, I presume, is just a plain business letter, though I don't understand the meaning of "dirigida a su representado" here. As Alba mentioned above, "representado" means the person/entity being represented, not the representative.
To you point about whether it's redundant: it depends on your viewpoint. If you believe "power of attorney" covers all powers of attorney, whether limited, general, notarized or simply witnessed by another party, then yes, it's redundant.
The question is, like powers of attorney themselves, whether to try to cover all possibilities or scenarios, no matter how redundant they may be, or whether to leave the wording as ambiguous as possible.
Personally, when translating legal documents, I am for translating as much of the original wording (and even redundancy) as possible even as I attempt to enhance the general readability of the output.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Richard Vranch
3 hrs
|
Thanks, Richard.
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agree |
Manuel Cedeño Berrueta
3 hrs
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Thanks, Manuel.
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agree |
Enrique Bjarne Strand Ferrer
5 hrs
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Thanks, enrfer.
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agree |
Charles Davis
: Spot on, I think, but like you I can't make sense of "a su representado".
8 hrs
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Thanks, Charles, yes, puzzling. Perhaps a transcription error?
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agree |
Luis M. Sosa
12 hrs
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Thanks, Luis.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you Robert! And thank you all for your input, it definitely clarified things for me. I'll contact the client and see if I can clarify the part that reads "a su representado" and let you all know what answer I get. Best!"
18 mins
formal power, power of attorney or a simple business letter
the translation of carta-poder is pretty straight forward. It is power of attorney.
Formal power refer to power given to someone in a position of power within a company, ie the boss.
business letter are those addressed to clients and customers, managers, agencies, suppliers, and other business personnel or organizations.
Formal power refer to power given to someone in a position of power within a company, ie the boss.
business letter are those addressed to clients and customers, managers, agencies, suppliers, and other business personnel or organizations.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your answer Diego! |
54 mins
Formal Power of Attorney
If this translation is intended for the United States, "formal power of attorney" would be the best translation. However, I would recommend trying to find out what is meant by "representado." "Representado" is not "representative." It means the "represented party."
Example sentence:
The representation can be conferred by formal power of attorney or simple business letter addressed to their represented party, but always subject to acceptance at the Shareholders Meeting.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your answer Alba! |
Discussion
“poder formal” MUST be a notarised/notarized power of attorney;
“carta poder” MOST LIKELY is a simple/non-notarised/notarized power of attorney, or written proxy, and
“carta comercial” can be translated as letter of authorisation/authorization / authorisation/authorization letter
(https://modelo-carta.com/poder-recoger-documentos-oficiales/...
(https://modelo-carta.com/poder/)
(https://www.flowtraders.com/sites/default/files/inline-files...
(http://templatelab.com/authorization-letter/#What_Exactly_is...
People quite often argue here for eliminating what they consider redundant verbiage in legal documents, but as a general rule I think it's risky or even reckless to do so unless you are quite certain of the potential legal consequences in the jurisdiction in question, and which of us, honestly, has that kind of knowledge?
"El accionista tendrá tantos votos como número de acciones que posea. Podrá hacerse representar en las Asambleas por otro socio o por persona extraña a la Sociedad. La representación podrá conferirse por medio de Escritura Pública, por Carta Poder o por simple carta comercial dirigida al Secretario de la Junta Directiva, los Gerentes y demás funcionarios de la Administración, y los Comisarios."
https://tzibalnaah.unah.edu.hn/bitstream/handle/123456789/41... (p. 4, column a, Article 15).
I think this tends to confirm Robert's suggestion that "poder formal" means a notarial power of attorney. The addressee of the possible "carta comercial" makes sense here, but like others I can't get my head round "dirigida a su representado"; it's very puzzling.