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Entrée en coupure

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

fiduciaire

English translation:

trustee // entrusted with

Added to glossary by medeast
May 9, 2020 15:01
4 yrs ago
43 viewers *
French term

fiduciaire

French to English Medical Medical: Health Care
The text I am translating concerns neonatal blood spot screening for an inborn error of metabolism. Here is the context: "Le CHU de Québec est le centre fiduciaire désigné pour le dépistage néonatal sanguin. Si un test de dépistage présente un résultat positif (ou anormal), le patient est orienté vers l’un des quatre centres de référence pour une évaluation diagnostique et une prise en charge." I think the meaning of "fiduciaire" here is "hub". Here is another instance of "fiduciaire" many pages later: "Selon les conditions et paliers négociés par le laboratoire fiduciaire avec le fournisseur de la trousse de dépistage des EIM par MS/MS, la redevance annuelle serait majorée d’environ 25 à 30 % si le nombre d’EIM dépistées au Québec, qui est actuellement de 8, devait dépasser 15." Am I on the right track, or is there a better solution than "hub"? Thanks for your help.
Proposed translations (English)
3 trustee // entrusted with
4 Trust
4 -1 the designated trusted (screening) center
3 -1 fiduciary/trustee
2 (CanE) contract (AmE) captive
3 -1 third-party
3 -2 Settlor/trustee
3 -2 blood fiduciary center

Discussion

Michael Grabczan-Grabowski May 20, 2020:
@Daryo - 2/2 In the Canadian context, they are referring to a fiducie in metaphorical way, whereas at least with "trustee," there is some basis in using the word as "person entrusted with" if you look at the cited dictionary definition in my previous post.

I have no doubt this explanation will still not satisfy you, but then so be it. The majority of people here have shown that they don't agree with you and they recognize that different contexts can interpret words slightly differently.
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski May 20, 2020:
@Daryo - 1/2 Please go to the link https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trustee?s=t and see this definition:

"1. a person, usually one of a body of persons, appointed to administer the affairs of a company, institution, etc."

Now, at least in Canada, the word "trustee" is used (or abused) quite often when it refers to medical institutions being entrusted with carrying out the mandate of certain programmes.

The same word in French is used: fiduciaire. However, the actual definitions of fiduciaire, according to Larousse, are:

"Relatif à la fiducie.
Se dit des valeurs fondées seulement sur la confiance accordée à celui qui les émet."

What part of that means "entrusted with" exactly, Daryo?

Definition of fiducie:

"Technique, courante en Suisse, par laquelle une banque ou une société (le fiduciaire) reçoit d'un donneur d'ordre (le fiduciant) un dépôt avec le pouvoir de le placer en son nom, mais aux risques du fiduciant, l'identité de celui-ci demeurant cachée.
Acquisition d'un bien par un créancier qui le restitue au débiteur à l'extinction de la dette."
Daryo May 20, 2020:
A point that seems to be completely "lost in the translation" is more than some unimportant nuance

is that everyone who is a "trustee" has definitely been "entrusted with" whatever was put in a [formal] trust (in the care of the trustees)

But it doesn't work the other way round: not everyone who was "entrusted with" just about anything - like organising/supervising a campaign of medical screening - becomes automatically - a "trustee" - that term applies ONLY for someone authorised to act on behalf of [NOT under the direction of] a legal entity known as "trust".

I can't see that this laboratory if the legal representative of any formal trust.
Daryo May 19, 2020:
"Naturally sounding" is fine in principle and certainly preferable, only there is a small fly in the ointment: I have seen a number of "naturally sounding" translations that shifted the meaning of the term, or even occasionally distorted it beyond recognition.

For the kind of texts that are a bit more than inconsequential informal chit-chat, where poetic licence is most unwelcome, if it happens that a choice is forced between "naturally sounding" and accurate, MY choice is obvious - a no brainier.
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski May 9, 2020:
@Daryo Because the asker has to translate sentences and a whole story, not just short names.

To a native English speaker, "designated trusted testing centre" just sounds odd. I don't see copywriters formulating a term like that. But I guess it could work, if that's your preference.

There is something to be said for writing that sounds more natural, appealing, and not like it was translated by a second-language speaker.

I'm sure the asker will choose his/her preferred option. There's more than one way to go about it.
Daryo May 9, 2020:
I can't see what would be gained by replacing what is a clear/unambiguous and short name for a type of institution by a whole story / a sentence.
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski May 9, 2020:
@Daryo "Designated trusted testing centre" could technically work, as in the meaning of "trusted" as "the condition of one to whom something has been entrusted," but it's unnecessarily clunky, and "trusted" is more often used to refer to a "confident expectation of something; hope" or "a person on whom or thing on which one relies."

I would suggest the following to incorporate désigné:
"The CHU de Québec is the designated centre entrusted with carrying out newborn screening tests."

or

"The CHU de Québec is the designated centre responsible for providing newborn screening tests."

Interestingly, I see a pattern with Québec medical institutions, where they repeatedly refer to a centre désigné, which is always translated as "assigned centre" or "designated centre." I get the impression that particular centres in Québec are specifically designated for certain tasks or programmes.
Daryo May 9, 2020:
the only "centre fiduciaire" in a medical context you can find in Canada is the one mentioned in this ST - sounds almost like they coined the term "centre fiduciaire désigné" specifically for the purpose of this screening programme!

I see no problem with "désigné", in fact it's almost a natural addition:

"centre fiduciaire désigné" => centre (de dépistage) qui a été désigné comme étant LE centre auquel on peut faire confiance

literally it would be

"the designated trusted testing center"

Reminds me of some big companies having "trusted suppliers" - those seen as particularly reliable.
medeast (asker) May 9, 2020:
I had considered “entrusted with”, but it seemed somewhat incompatible with “désigné”. Nonetheless, I am more and more inclined to think that this is what the author means.
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski May 9, 2020:
@Daryo Yes, Daryo. It's not referring to an actual fiduciary relationship, but rather to the fact that something (the fulfilment of the objectives of the programme) is being entrusted (to the CHU de Québec.)
Daryo May 9, 2020:
Any meaning/interpretation that has to do with real / formal trusts can be safely discarded with 99.999999% certainty - simply makes no sense whatsoever in this specific text - and THAT is what counts, NOT whatever any context-free dictionary or glossary has to say.

What would make sense is to see "fiduciaire" as "someone who can be trusted" i.e. that other hospitals trust this hospital to do this initial screening in a reliable way.
medeast (asker) May 9, 2020:
The word "central" might be another option, as in "central facility" (in the first passage provided).

Proposed translations

1 hr
Selected

trustee // entrusted with

I get the impression the word fiduciaire here is being use loosely and is influenced by the English word "trustee" (not an uncommon thing in Canada), as in French it's supposed to refer to a person who holds the title to property for the benefit of another.

However, in English, the word "trustee" is a bit more flexible. One of the definitions, according to dictionary.com, is:

"a person, usually one of a body of persons, appointed to administer the affairs of a company, institution, etc."

The CHU de Québec is the Centre hospitalier universitaire de Québec, and according to their webpage https://www.chudequebec.ca/patient/maladies,-soins-et-servic... it is entrusted to run the Programme québécois de dépistage néonatal sanguin (PQDNS). On this same webpage, it states:

Le Programme québécois de dépistage néonatal sanguin (PQDNS) c'est un programme de santé publique offert à tous les nouveau-nés de la province dont le CHU de Québec-Université Laval est le fiduciaire.

So the CHU is the institution entrusted with running the programme and achieving its goals, presumably in accordance with its trust document. Said otherwise, the CHU is the trustee of the programme.

For your translation, I would approach it like this:

The CHU de Québec is the centre entrusted with (or responsible for) carrying out newborn screening tests. (My preferred option.)

or

The CHU de Québec is the trustee centre responsible for carrying out newborn screening tests.

Similarly, with laboratoire fiduciaire, I would refer to it as the "trustee laboratory," as it is the laboratory carrying out the activities related to the programme that is entrusted to the CHU de Québec (the trustee).
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : nothing to do with formal / real trusts - makes no sense whatsoever. You are supposed to give ONE anwer (including synonyms) You have in fact given TWO answers: -one correct "entrusted with" and -one that IS NOT a synonym and here is wrong "trustee"
3 hrs
I addressed this point. Also, look up the definition of the English word "trust." // Despite your combative tone and general rudeness, I agree, I'll give single answers next time and provide synonyms in the body of the answer. Good day to you.
agree Yvonne Gallagher : Daryo disagrees and then paraphrases your answer. Yes, it's a trust that is entrusted with this task
1 day 19 hrs
Thank you, Yvonne!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks to all."
-2
49 mins

Settlor/trustee

Settlor/trustee


If you have an English client, I would use the term "settlor", which is more common in English law documents.

Settlor = The person who creates a trust by donating property to be managed and administered by a trustee with the profits going to a beneficiary.
http://www.leanlegal.com/dictionary/s.asp

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/2001_02/trusts_etc/ir270.pdf

http://www.cfct.org.uk/settlor.htm
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : make no sense IN THIS TEXT
3 hrs
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : nothing to do with property here
1 day 20 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
1 hr

fiduciary/trustee

an organization (in this case a hospital) entrusted to provide the administration of services
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : make no sense IN THIS TEXT // yes "the screening is entrusted to the CHU" - that makes perfect sense - BUT it doesn't make the CHU any kind of "trustee" - that term is applicable O_N_L_Y when there is a formal legal entity of the "trust" variety.
4 hrs
did you read my explanation? i.e., the screening is entrusted to the CHU.
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : fiduciary a false friend here
1 day 20 hrs
Something went wrong...
-2
2 hrs

blood fiduciary center

"The CHU of Québec is the designated fiduciary center for neonatal blood screening¨.

I think it is equivalent to ¨Blood Bank.¨

https://www.carterbloodcare.org/where-does-your-blood-go/
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : testing blood and keeping blood is not the same
2 hrs
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : "designated fiduciary center" is wrong as is "blood bank"
1 day 19 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
7 hrs
French term (edited): le centre fiduciaire désigné

the designated trusted (screening) center

From what could be found about this screening program, that would be the intended meaning.

Guide de pratique pour le dépistage néonatal sanguin et urinaire
...
Ce programme se distingue des autres qui existent dans le monde parce qu’il s’appuie sur deux tests de dépistage réalisés à partir de prélèvements différents. Le prélèvement sanguin est recueilli entre 24 et 48 heures de vie du nouveau-né par les infirmières et les sages-femmes, et le prélèvement urinaire est fait par les parents à 21 jours de vie. Le Centre hospitalier universitaire de Québec − Université Laval est l’établissement fiduciaire du dépistage sanguin, tandis que le Centre intégré universitaire de santé et de services sociaux de l’Estrie − Centre hospitalier universitaire de Sherbrooke est fiduciaire du dépistage urinaire.
...
http://publications.msss.gouv.qc.ca/msss/fichiers/2018/18-91...

http://publications.msss.gouv.qc.ca/msss/fichiers/2018/18-91...

33125-programme-quebecois-depistage-neonatal-sanguin-urinaire.pdf
https://uqo.ca/file/42477/download?token=rKcue1JK

2018-010_Circulaire_2018-10-31.pdf
https://www.chudequebec.ca/getattachment/Professionnels-de-l...


etc
Peer comment(s):
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : doesn't mean "trusted//Quite simply "trusted" is the wrong word here. And you disagreed with the right answer! There's nothing "amateur" about entrusted with
1 day 14 hrs
Yeah sure - in real life they are going to nominate a bunch of hopeless amateurs to run THE "reference" testing centre!//I've disagreed because ONE of the TWO anwers [they are NOT synonyms, as you seem to think they are] was wrong: "trustee"
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

(CanE) contract (AmE) captive

Perhaps this is talking about select, 'captive' medical (contract panel-approved cf. Vertragskasse in DEU & AUT) medical centers /centres and 'captive' or inhouse vs. independent laboratories.

Hub center would be a tautology whilst hub laboratory would indeed be a feasible option.

PS there is no need for anyone to hijack this question....
Example sentence:

The next decade will me really exciting for compliant and accredited laboratories both captive and independent third party laboratories!

(Linguee) 6.10.1 A Canadian contract laboratory must have a relevant valid current establishment licence. hc-sc.gc.ca 6.10.1 un laboratoire sous-traitant canadien doit être titulaire d'une licence d'établissement courante et valide.

Reference:

http://www.stainlessfoundry.com/uploads/files/ISO_v2_aritcle.pdf

http://www.touchpointsatmanchester.com/services/veterans-program-va-contracted-nursing-facility/

Something went wrong...
1 day 18 mins

Trust

https://www.chudequebec.ca/patient/maladies,-soins-et-servic...
DESCRIPTION
Le Programme québécois de dépistage néonatal sanguin (PQDNS) c'est un programme de santé publique offert à tous les nouveau-nés de la province dont le CHU de Québec-Université Laval est le fiduciaire.
Il a pour but de détecter le plus tôt possible certaines maladies qui sont présentent à la naissance, bien qu’elles ne soient pas apparentes (pas ou peu de signes et symptômes).

Pour prévenir des conséquences graves et permanentes, ces maladies doivent être identifiées et traitées rapidement.

Le PQDNS dépiste des maladies différentes des maladies dépistées par le dépistage néonatal urinaire.


Établissements membres | CHU de Québec-Université Laval
www.chudequebec.ca › etablissement...

1.
Translate this page
CHU de Québec-Université Laval (établissement fiduciaire). Centre hospitalier de l'Université Laval (CHUL). Nicolas Desbiens, 418 525-4444, poste 47523 ...



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Note added at 1 day 20 mins (2020-05-10 15:22:00 GMT)
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Newborn screening - GOV.UKwww.gov.uk › government › publications › newborn-s...
6 Jul 2018 - The main reason for offering newborn screening is that babies with sickle cell ... Some trusts offer a liquid capillary blood specimen (not cord blood), which ... This means the baby does not have SCD , and none of the specified ...

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Note added at 1 day 22 mins (2020-05-10 15:23:52 GMT)
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Discretionary trusts under the new French trust régime: initial ...www.overseaschambers.com › media › discretionary tr...
PDF
16 Jan 2012 - futurs, à un ou plusieurs fiduciaires. Article 2. Aux fins de la présente. Convention, le terme « trust » vise les relations juridiques créées par une ...

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Note added at 1 day 30 mins (2020-05-10 15:31:56 GMT)
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https://www.aqiig.org/content/Bulletin_formation_continue_pa...

Avec ce projet sur la FCP, le CHU de Québec – Université Laval, le Centre
hospitalier de l’Université de Montréal (CHUM), le Centre universitaire de
santé de Montréal (CUSM) et le Centre intégré universitaire de santé et
de services sociaux (CIUSSS) de l’Estrie – Centre hospitalier universitaire
de Sherbrooke (CHUS) ****deviennent les fiduciaires pour les établissements
qui leur sont associés et auprès du MSSS ***(l’INSPQ conserve son rôle de
producteur et de diffuseur en santé publique)

definitely to do with "Trustee/Trust".
Peer comment(s):
agree Yvonne Gallagher : yes, it's a trust
21 hrs
disagree Daryo : the way "fiduciaire" is used in this ST it's clearly a reference to the role of this laboratory in this screening programme, NOTHING to do with its legal status Reality check: how could the legal status of a lab can have ANY influence on biology???
8 days
Something went wrong...
-1
1 day 10 hrs

third-party

I believe that the center would become the designated third party to handle the situation
Peer comment(s):
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : not what the ST says
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
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