Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
objet cité en marge
English translation:
premises referred to above/above/above-mentioned
Added to glossary by
Adrian MM.
Apr 9 14:04
1 mo ago
27 viewers *
French term
Canada
International Multicultural Diversified
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, US, Australian, Canadian, New Zealand) 
Works in: French to English
objet cité en marge
French to English
Bus/Financial
Real Estate
Tenancy transfer
Hi,
I am currently translating a Swiss "Avis de Mutation de Locataires" and have the following sentence:
"Nous vous informons que le(s) locataire(s) ci-dessous doit (doivent) prendre possession de l'objet cité en marge."
There is nothing in the margin.
I think they mean the information found between the header and this sentence (information on building and references).
Is there a similar expression in English?
This is for Australia.
Thanks
Joanna
I am currently translating a Swiss "Avis de Mutation de Locataires" and have the following sentence:
"Nous vous informons que le(s) locataire(s) ci-dessous doit (doivent) prendre possession de l'objet cité en marge."
There is nothing in the margin.
I think they mean the information found between the header and this sentence (information on building and references).
Is there a similar expression in English?
This is for Australia.
Thanks
Joanna
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | (OzE demised) premises referred-to above (AmE) captioned |
Adrian MM.
|
References
| the above property |
philgoddard
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| above-mentioned |
Bourth
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Change log
Apr 9, 2024 19:13: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "l\'objet cité en marge" to "objet cité en marge"
Apr 17, 2024 08:30: Adrian MM. changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/583720">joanna menda's</a> old entry - "objet cité en marge"" to ""premises referred-to above/above/above-mentioned""
Proposed translations
1 hr
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish)
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
77
French term (edited):
l'objet cité en marge (CH)
Selected
(OzE demised) premises referred-to above (AmE) captioned
Thinking that 'above-captioned' is an AmE or CanE locution, I agree that the object = subject-matter (trick FRE/ENG translation & interpreting exam question) is property, as model(l)ed closely on the Swiss, Liechtenstein and Austrian German 'joker-word' of 'das Objekt' (e.g. this property is managed by so-&-so managing agents / dieses Objekt wird von der Firma ... verwaltet).
> en marge: 'There is nothing in the margin'.
PS I cannot recall the Aussie or Kiwi lawyers in our City of London conveyancing including landlord & tenant dept. using 'captions'
> en marge: 'There is nothing in the margin'.
PS I cannot recall the Aussie or Kiwi lawyers in our City of London conveyancing including landlord & tenant dept. using 'captions'
Example sentence:
PREMISES · Continuation of Lease. The marginal captions appearing on this Note are for reference Marginal Headings.
OZ: Demised Premises Generally refers to premises that have been transferred by lease, as opposed to the ‘retained parts’ which are not transferred but are retained by the landlord.
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Reference comments
7 mins
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
110
Reference:
the above property
We had this very recently - I can't find it because there have been so many questions about this term - and I think the wrong answer was chosen.
If there is no margin, and the property is described above, it must mean 'above'.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/mining-minerals-...
If there is no margin, and the property is described above, it must mean 'above'.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/mining-minerals-...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: only logical explanation
41 mins
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Thanks.
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| neutral |
Adrian MM.
: 'I can't find it because there have been so many questions about this term - and I think the wrong answer was chosen.' you think.
1 hr
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I know we've had this in the past few weeks, but there are 39 questions about 'en marge' and I don't have the time or inclination to wade through them. Most translate 'marge' as 'margin', but I believe many of these may be wrong.
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| neutral |
writeaway
: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/above-me...
1 hr
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Of course it's in the dictionary, but it means the same as 'above'. It's listed here, for example: http://www.plainlanguage.gov/guidelines/words/avoid-jargon/
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49 mins
Reference:
above-mentioned
It seems to be a Swiss turn of phrase for "above-mentioned", e.g.
Obgenannter Bürgerrechtsbewerber und seine schweizerische Ehefrau / obgenannte Bürgerrechtsbewerberin und ihr schweizerischer Ehemann bestätigen, dass sie in einer tatsächlichen, ungetrennten, stabilen ehelichen Gemeinschaft an derselben Adresse zusammenleben und dass weder Trennungs- noch Scheidungsabsichten bestehen
Le candidat à la nationalité cité en marge et son épouse suissesse / la candidate à la nationalité citée en marge et son époux suisse certifient qu'ils vivent à la même adresse, non séparés, sous la forme d'une communauté conjugale effective et stable, et qu'ils n'ont aucune intention de se séparer ou de divorcer.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2024-04-09 17:49:18 GMT)
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To hyphenate or not to hyphenate? I hardly think it matters, but for the record, Google gives 171M ghits for "the above-mentioned", 42M for "the abovementioned". Someone on the Ouèbbhe says "It's either above-mentioned (UK and older US usage) or abovementioned (US)."
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Note added at 3 hrs (2024-04-09 17:51:17 GMT)
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Note added at 18 hrs (2024-04-10 08:14:07 GMT)
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@ Phil - It's not that it's close to zero; ngrams plot the %age of words ('the', which is bound to appear in any writing of any kind, is no less prevalent today than it was previously, at around 5%). But the corpus of literature has changed in nature, with more novels, scientific reports, etc. that are less likely to use 'abovementioned'. Actually, I first wrote 'aforementioned' at the end of the prev. sentence: ngrams show it is more frequent than it's non-identical twin.
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Note added at 18 hrs (2024-04-10 08:16:34 GMT)
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Note added at 18 hrs (2024-04-10 08:18:21 GMT)
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Grrr. Its twin
Obgenannter Bürgerrechtsbewerber und seine schweizerische Ehefrau / obgenannte Bürgerrechtsbewerberin und ihr schweizerischer Ehemann bestätigen, dass sie in einer tatsächlichen, ungetrennten, stabilen ehelichen Gemeinschaft an derselben Adresse zusammenleben und dass weder Trennungs- noch Scheidungsabsichten bestehen
Le candidat à la nationalité cité en marge et son épouse suissesse / la candidate à la nationalité citée en marge et son époux suisse certifient qu'ils vivent à la même adresse, non séparés, sous la forme d'une communauté conjugale effective et stable, et qu'ils n'ont aucune intention de se séparer ou de divorcer.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2024-04-09 17:49:18 GMT)
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To hyphenate or not to hyphenate? I hardly think it matters, but for the record, Google gives 171M ghits for "the above-mentioned", 42M for "the abovementioned". Someone on the Ouèbbhe says "It's either above-mentioned (UK and older US usage) or abovementioned (US)."
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Note added at 3 hrs (2024-04-09 17:51:17 GMT)
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Note added at 18 hrs (2024-04-10 08:14:07 GMT)
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@ Phil - It's not that it's close to zero; ngrams plot the %age of words ('the', which is bound to appear in any writing of any kind, is no less prevalent today than it was previously, at around 5%). But the corpus of literature has changed in nature, with more novels, scientific reports, etc. that are less likely to use 'abovementioned'. Actually, I first wrote 'aforementioned' at the end of the prev. sentence: ngrams show it is more frequent than it's non-identical twin.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2024-04-10 08:16:34 GMT)
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Note added at 18 hrs (2024-04-10 08:18:21 GMT)
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Grrr. Its twin
Note from asker:
| Thanks! I finally went with this answer. |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: Also works but the word isn't usually hyphenated. "Mentioned" is NOT redundant Phil - "abovementioned" is standard official English
21 mins
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| agree |
writeaway
: It's often useful to check the 'other' main language when translating official Swiss Fr or De documents. /You should have posted this as an answer. Someone else has picked it up and run with it.
23 mins
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| neutral |
philgoddard
: This is the same point that I made, but 'mentioned' is redundant. It's significant that your graph peaks in 1750 and is close to zero now.
25 mins
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See added note above
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| agree |
Daryo
: or anywhere else in the same document.
1 day 3 hrs
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| neutral |
Adrian MM.
: your answer omits any reference to 'objet' - that is half of the question and someone, without attributing any credit, has taken *my* Swiss-German analogy with and run with.
7 days
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