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en feston

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

répondu

English translation:

matched

Added to glossary by Dareth Pray
Jun 16, 2018 20:47
5 yrs ago
French term

répondu

French to English Bus/Financial Finance (general) Trading platforms
The way this word is being used seems strange to me in this context and syntactically. It is used three times in my document, which is an operating procedure for an Order Receipt and Transmission service. Taking out the confidential information, here are my 3 examples:

1) si les négociateurs ne peuvent les [les ordres] regrouper dans leur [systeme], ils seront traités et dans tous les cas répondus unitairement au client.

2) Si la quantité demandée ne peut pas être obtenue, il s’agit d’une exécution partielle dont la quantité répondue sera saisie par le négociateur.

3) Les ordres sur actions regroupés et exécutés sous le forme de ordres liés sont répondus au client ou à la banque au prix moyen.
Proposed translations (English)
2 +2 matched
4 answered and
4 answered (individually)
5 -1 gotten back
4 -1 accepted
3 accounted for

Discussion

Mohamed Hosni Jun 18, 2018:
I totally disagree with "match " as translation for the term "répondu".
Daryo Jun 17, 2018:
what you describe shows a use of "matching" that corresponds to its expected meaning.

if 3 orders (out of 10) can be executed exactly as required then they are "matched" - but that's not the case in the fragments you quoted - they are about orders than can not be "matched" / i.e. paired in a way that you get the quantities needed (=> Si la quantité demandée ne peut pas être obtenue)

the meaning of "répondu" is clear in this ST - the "response" to the client's request, which most of the time will be to find "a match", but you can call hardly call it "a match" if "Si la quantité demandée ne peut pas être obtenue"?

As for the technical term to use and the right way to use it in a sentence, there must some original texts in English on the same subject available to use as reference.

BTW, they might be manipulating mostly scriptural money / bits and bytes in some electronic trading system instead of tons of concrete, but basic of negotiating are still the same: if you order 1000 tons of concrete it's either "matched" with a delivery of 1000 tons or "replied" with a counter offer to deliver you only part of that quantity.
Daryo Jun 17, 2018:
A very simple possible reason why they didn't use "matching" in these few occurrences might be because there is no "matching" when an order is only partially fulfilled?

Most orders will be executed as required, so most of the time there will be "a match" between the ordered and delivered quantities - but NOT in the cases described in the segments you quoted.
Dareth Pray (asker) Jun 17, 2018:
@Daryo That is not the meaning of "matching" in trading contexts. In trading, matching is industry specific jargon that refers to pairing sell orders with buy orders. So If I submit 10 sell orders, but the intermediary is only able to match 3 of those with sell orders, then only those transactions are executed. If you Google "Trade Matching" or Order Matching or something along those lines you'll find a lot of information.

The text has nothing to do with commercial negotiation. It is buying and trading of securities. As I specified, this has to do with a Order Receipt and Transmission service. This is specific to stock trading. That is very different than commercial trading and the offer/acceptance contractual model you are referring to.
Daryo Jun 17, 2018:
@ Asker what kind of "matching" would it be if you go in a shop and ask for 10 packs of whatever, and the seller responds (répondu) "I can give you only 3"?

That would be a meaning of "matching" that I failed to notice the last 20 odd years that I read and listen to English all day long...

The whole point of the inbuilt redundancy in human language and the importance of context is that very often you can take one word out (or replace it with anything weird or even completely nonsensical) and still be able to get the meaning of the whole text/paragraph.

Part of the "context" for this text is that it's clearly about "commercial negotiation" - what exactly is being sold changes preciously little to basic concepts as the pair offer/acceptance applying ONLY if one side "accepts" the offer of the other side EXACTLY AS IT IS; you DON'T "accept" the offer to sell to the other party 100 of XYZ by "responding" (répondu) that "I can give you only 90 of them" - that's called a "counter-offer", that is either accepted / rejected / answered by a counter-counter-offer etc..

Also, there is no rule that every single use of one term must always be translated the same way ...
Lorraine Dubuc Jun 17, 2018:
We are not debating value of dialect here This is financial language, not what is used daily in a particular dialect. Of course the spoken language is full of funny expressions but here it is a financial text.
Odette Grille (X) Jun 17, 2018:
Anglicism Dear Lorraine, that is a grammarian answer, not a linguist's.
Odette Grille (X) Jun 17, 2018:
Meaning is the point "Tu m'aimes-tu ?" is not standard French, but does it have no meaning ? As linguists, i.e. people who study linguistics as translators and interpretors normally do, meaning is what we try to convey, not grammar.
Lorraine Dubuc Jun 17, 2018:
To Odette To recognize an anglicism is indeed part of our job. And this is one. 'Les ordres répondus' simply does not work. 'Les commandes remplies, les ordres auxquels on a donné suite, s'il s'agit de directives, cela peut aller aussi. Mais on répond 'à' quelque chose et on ne répond pas quelque chose.
Dareth Pray (asker) Jun 17, 2018:
Hi everyone. I agree that this is "bad" French, or whatever term you'd rather use, non-standard, etc. This is why I support Claire's take at this point. We're debating whether this is an anglicism or influenced by Canadian French.....what if the original concept, "matching," which is used throughout the source as the English term (while this term is only used 3 times), has been translated with "repondre" while retaining the structures you'd have with the verb "to match" in English? Keeping in mind (to refute Daryo's comment to Claire) that "matching" in this context has a very different meaning than it usually does.

I personally think that the difficulty here lies with "au client, a la banque, etc." as in ""ordres répondus au client." That doesn't work for me at all, even in English it wouldn't work with "accept" or "answer," whereas "match" seems to work because this has to do with transaction matching, where the customer's orders are matched with transactions and confirmations and things like that with intermediaries or counterparties or banks, etc.

In any event, it is a strange usage....
Odette Grille (X) Jun 17, 2018:
To Lorraine For a linguist there is no such thing as good or bad. Usage is what it is and it is such in QC. Judging bad and good is not our job.
Lorraine Dubuc Jun 17, 2018:
no, it does not make sense in French Canada either Il y a moins d'anglicismes dans le français canadien que dans le français de France à mon avis. Ordre répondu n'est simplement pas du bon français.
Odette Grille (X) Jun 17, 2018:
To François It does not in Fr-Fr, but in Fr-Ca as influenced by English, and in spoken language, it does make sense.
Francois Boye Jun 16, 2018:
"ordres répondus au client" does not meet the requirement of French language.
Daryo Jun 16, 2018:
Might be an unusual use of "répondre" but the meaning is clear - it's the "offered quantity", offered in response to the request of the client.

Proposed translations

+2
55 mins
Selected

matched

Ordre répondu
Mis à jour le 09/01/2011
Téléchargez
le Lexique complet

Se dit d'un ordre de bourse qui a trouvé sa contrepartie. Ainsi un ordre de vente est dit répondu quand il a trouvé un ordre d'achat compatible. Tant que l'ordre n'est pas répondu et qu'il n'a pas dépassé sa date de validité, il reste présent sur le carnet d'ordres. Toutefois l'investisseur a la possibilité de retirer cet ordre à tout moment. L'ordre sera alors tout simplement annulé.

https://www.edubourse.com/lexique/ordre-repondu.php


Share
DEFINITION of 'Matching Orders'

The process for executing securities trades by pairing buy orders with sell orders. Matching orders utilize algorithms which determine how orders are matched and in what order they are filled, which subsequently differ based on the venue to which the trade is routed. One common algorithm used in matching orders utilizes first in, first out (FIFO), which prioritizes assets acquired first to be filed for selling first.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/matchingorders.asp


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Note added at 14 hrs (2018-06-17 10:59:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Order matching:
an order is matched when counterparty is found and the sell order
matches the buy order. Two compatible orders on opposite sides are combined.

http://www.cdcclimat.com/IMG/pdf/3_Etude_Climat_EN_CO2_excha...
Note from asker:
That might make perfect sense because the English term "matching" is used more often in the source than "repondre" and in similar contexts. And it makes sense because they are talking about "au client, a la banque, au depositaire, etc." That fits the context of matching. Really pleased with this, thanks! Let's see what other input we get but this looks solid to me.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : picture this: - Client "I'll have 1000 of these" - Seller "I'll match[???] your request by offering you 600 of these" - that would be a quite novel meaning of "matching"!
16 mins
agree ph-b (X) : The source text does look odd to a non-specialist native speaker from France, but it doesn’t take much research to realize your ref. is borne out by lots of reliable examples on the Net.
13 hrs
Thanks!
agree AllegroTrans
17 hrs
Thanks!
agree Yvonne Gallagher : = corresponding order, even if not fully matching
18 hrs
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you! Despite the disagreements, "matched" is perfect. "Matching" has a different meaning in stock trading, and this suits the context perfectly. "
-1
26 mins

accepted

Note from asker:
That works perfectly for example 2, thanks. But what about 1 and 3? How does it work syntactically as "répondus au client"
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : if what they offer is not what was requested from them, in any normal sense of the term, the request hasn't been "accepted" // you don't "accept" only part of an offer - if you do so it's "a counter-offer" - basics of commerce.
42 mins
This is consistent with my translation and my attachents.
Something went wrong...
1 hr

answered and

It looks to me like it is used as QC people use the verb, similarly to the English use.

But "sous le forme de ordres" seems to be written by an English speaker who does not master genders and elisions.

For 1) answered on a unit by unit basis
2) the available quantity
3) are satisfied

The basic meaning is "answered"because the text is about answering orders

Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo : might not be the right technical term, but that's the idea: answered, replied etc
7 hrs
disagree Mohamed Hosni : Answered and what!!!. There's no " and ".
1 day 1 hr
I give more than one answer, hence the "and". But no need for three exclamation marks...:)
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

answered (individually)

'répondu' is bad grammar used this way. One should say 'obtiendrons réponse' individuellement, for example, but 'être répondu' is plain frenglish for 'be answered'.

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Note added at 3 heures (2018-06-17 00:05:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I also believe that 'ordres' is probably used for 'order' which in banking is called 'traite' or 'mandat' not 'ordre'. It is a too literal translation. Unless it is meant as 'commande'? In which case, 'filled' instead of answered would probably be better.
Example sentence:

Chaque client obtiendra une réponse personnalisée.

Something went wrong...
4 hrs

accounted for

Leaving aside the rather evident shortcomings in the ST, and without getting involveg in the specifics of Canadian French, "accounted for" seems (to me) to fit (i.e. make some sort of sense in) all 3 quotes from the ST.
Something went wrong...
-1
15 hrs

gotten back

The term "gotten back " fits more in this context.
Happy translation.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2018-06-17 23:47:39 GMT)
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- gotten back to the client.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2018-06-17 23:52:19 GMT)
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quantity gotten back

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Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2018-06-17 23:54:35 GMT)
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quantity gotten back

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Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2018-06-18 00:27:43 GMT)
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What's this! My comment has been hidden my discussions has been hidden as well!!. Dose it make sense?. What is so dramatic or so catastrophic in my contribution .

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 17 hrs (2018-06-18 14:17:58 GMT)
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Many thanks Dereth for your kind reply.

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Note added at 1 day 17 hrs (2018-06-18 14:27:01 GMT)
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Many thanks Dereth for your kind reply.
Note from asker:
I have not hidden anything, and I cannot do so. Perhaps one of the moderators? You'd have to contact the site.
Peer comment(s):
disagree AllegroTrans : doesn't fit into any of the sentences and not a term that would be used in this context
2 hrs
No comment
Something went wrong...
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