Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Gratiné de volaille à l'époisses

English translation:

Gratin of chicken with Époisses cheese

Added to glossary by Tony M
Jun 9, 2017 22:44
6 yrs ago
5 viewers *
French term

Gratiné de volaille à l'époisses

Non-PRO French to English Other Food & Drink
Bonjour,

Je cherche à traduire Gratiné de volaille à l'époisses pour un menu. J'ai trouvé plusieurs exemple où la traduction employé pour "gratiné de XXX" devient "XXX gratin", mais je ne suis pas certaine de la formulation.

Merci beaucoup !
Proposed translations (English)
4 +7 Gratin of chicken with Époisses cheese
Change log

Jun 9, 2017 23:50: JohnMcDove changed "Language pair" from "English to French" to "French to English"

Jun 10, 2017 09:46: mchd changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Jun 15, 2017 23:50: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "Gratiné de volaille à l\\\'époisses" to "Gratiné de volaille à l\'époisses "

Jun 23, 2017 05:17: Tony M Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): writeaway, Rachel Fell, mchd

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Discussion

mrrafe Jun 10, 2017:
menu format? Of course, menus often present the original name of the dish followed by a translation into the local language. If that's the format in this case, one could explain gratinee and volaille individually in EN and then explain that Epoisses is a soft cheese, etc. A decision for the client.
mrrafe Jun 10, 2017:
FR-FR? I think the entire phrase falls into a gray area in that all its components have been borrowed into EN. 1. The most obvious is gratin, a commonplace on everyday US menus as John points out. 2. Volaille is less common and this is the only instance I can find on line - https://books.google.com/books?id=uRJt7QqA7GEC&pg=PA659&lpg=... - but I remember it from a cookbook entry (Joyce Chen?) about a sous chef being berated for poor knife work which has allowed a bit of chicken fat into the pot: "You have ruined my volaille!" the chef screams. Almost 50 years later this is still a family joke in our kitchen when something goes wrong. 3. Epoisses seems to be at least a trademark, if not an appellation d'origine, so it can't very well be changed for translation purposes. My only cavil about Marlene's translation is that if gratinee is the only word amenable to being anglicized, the "gratin" looks misplaced, and the entire phrase might best be left in FR regardless of Kudoz pairings.
JohnMcDove Jun 9, 2017:
@ Asker, I reversed the pair. Otherwise, if this is a French-French question, post it as applicable. In English one can use the expression "au gratin". https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/au_gratin
Jennifer Levey Jun 9, 2017:
@Asker Why do you appear to be translating from French to French - in an English-to-French question? Are you in fact looking for an English translation of the French?

Proposed translations

+7
7 hrs
French term (edited): Gratiné de volaille à l\'époisses
Selected

Gratin of chicken with Époisses cheese

I agree that normally I would reverse the word order, IF it were only a single ingredient: chicken gratin
BUT with the second ingredient here, I find that can get clumsy, or/and can occasionally even become misleading (if the second ingredient starts to look like a mere accompaniment.

In this case, however, I'd be inclined to add the 'cheese' — anyone not in the know could be forgiven for not being familiar with this particular product (unlike say Brie or Camembert), but as dairy products are a common source of food intolerances and allergies, it is probably helpful to the EN-speaking diner to point that out, instead of leaving them to ask the waiter or having a potentially unpleasant surprise.

Note of course that 'volaille' isn't necessarily automatically 'chicken' — but we would rarely if ever say 'poultry' on a menu in EN, and so 'chicken' is a reasnoable bet — though it would be wisest to check all the same with the chef. Sometimes it is a cover-up for using cheaper turkey meat...

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Note added at 12 heures (2017-06-10 11:00:08 GMT)
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I emphasize again that 'volaille' is USUALLY chicken in a FR menu; almost invariably, if it is any other fowl (or rabbit!), they will want to vaunt that fact. Equally, it's relatively uncommon to find 'poulet' mentioned as such, unless it is as 'poulette' or 'poularde' or 'coq' or 'chapon' or somesuch. Neither have I ever come across 'poulet' and 'volaille' on the same menu, which would of course tend to suggest some distinction was being made between them.

The executive catering manager at one of my customers, a renowned major hotel chain, said that when translating their menus, I could take it for granted that by default 'volaille' was intended to mean 'chicken' unless specifically indicated to the contrary; usually, if it is duck etc. the restaurant is only too pleased to vaunt the fact. The only real problem arises in those thankfully rare instances where 'volaile' is being used as a non-specific way of hiding the fact that cheaper turkey meat (almost always) has been used, which is not going to be very noticeable if it's cut up and in a dish with sauce, for example.
The only other exception I've personally ever come across is with the basic ingredient 'gésiers de volaille (émincés)' where, if you check the packaging, you usually find they are in fact turkey — understandably, inasmuch as turkey gésiers are a bit bigger than chicken ones!

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Note added at 13 jours (2017-06-23 05:29:36 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I entirely take Marlen's point about 'trendy' descriptions of dishes on menus — and indeed, a similar trend is very much evident in EN. However, generally speaking; FR menus if translated too literally tend to sound over-flowery and pretentious in EN.
But in any event, if we assume that the EN 'translation' is deemed necessary / advisable for the benefit of customers who may be less accustomed to FR culinary descriptions, it seems to me that the function of the EN is to explain whatthe customer can expect to find on their plate — and above all, to not give them a false expectation of things they will NOT find.
It is rarely possible (and arguably unhelpful) to find an equally flowery description in the EN version. When I am translating menus for upgrade establishments of the ilk of Le Meurice etc., I always discuss with the Maître d'hôtel and the chef just how they would like me to proceed.
Peer comment(s):

agree Patricia Hulmes (X)
2 hrs
Thanks, Patricia!
agree Carol Gullidge : agree with each point you make: word order, adding "cheese", and regarding translation of "volaille". I find that on menus, it almost invariably is chicken. PLUS, like you, I'd capitalise Époisses, since it's a proper name, and this needs to be emphasised
2 hrs
Thanks, Carol! Exactly! / Exceptions I have found with 'volaille' are when it is in some kind of sauce, like curry, for example; and also, gésiers émincés, which are usually turkey by default, unless specifically stated '...de canard'.
agree writeaway : yes Époisses is a cheese and it's best to mention it. I'm not really sure what the problem is. It's not exactly an unusual dish as such. /not those of us who translate menus though. No fancy chef-speak here. Very basic and straightforward imo......
3 hrs
Thanks, W/A! Many people have problems knowing what to do about word order ;-)
neutral MARLENE LE DUC (X) : Volaille is not chicken but Poultry
4 hrs
As I pointed out above, 'poultry' is not acceptable on a menu in EN, and from experience, I know that MOST of the time it IS chicken; though it's always best to check! This is chefs' language, and between ourselves we understand each other.
agree Mark Nathan : Yes, if it wasn't chicken they usually say so, as chicken is the lowest in the pecking order, so to speak.
5 hrs
Thanks, Mark!
agree Jennifer White : Have never seen "poultry" on a menu.
7 hrs
Thanks, Jennifer! Me neither :-)
agree Michele Fauble
9 hrs
Merci, Michele !
agree Hélène OShea : Agree and I think we can even keep gratiné
13 hrs
Merci, Hélène ! Personally, I don't care for it, not the usual part of speech in EN.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
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