Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Jun 24, 2008 15:58
15 yrs ago
11 viewers *
French term
France
Business, academe and leisure...
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, Italian to English
journalier
Non-PRO
French to English
Other
Genealogy
I am translating a set of old family records. One is a marriage certificate that states the occupation of the man as a "journalier"...the document is from the late 1830's.
Any ideas????
Any ideas????
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | journeyman |
Yaotl Altan
|
| 5 | agricultural labourer |
saraja
|
| 4 | day labourer |
translatol
|
| 3 | labourer |
Jean-Claude Gouin
|
Change log
Jun 30, 2008 14:26: Yaotl Altan changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/747946">Rebecca Lyne's</a> old entry - "journalier"" to ""journeyman""
Proposed translations
+1
1 min
Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Mexico
Mexico
Mexican translator proofreader +20 years
Native in: Spanish 
, Italian
Works in: English to Spanish, Italian to Spanish, French to Spanish, and 5 more.
Selected
journeyman
Note from asker:
| Thank you! :-) |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "yes, this is correct"
10 hrs
Jean-Claude Gouin
Canada
Canada
Native in French
Canada
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Native in: French
Works in: French to English, English to French, French, and 1 more.
labourer
*
12 mins
translatol
Native in English
Translations that read like originals
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, Catalan to English
day labourer
See the Oxford Spanish Dictionary.
'Journalier' originally had the meaning of 'journeyman' (see the Concise Oxford English Dictionary), but I think not by the 1830s.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2008-06-25 08:23:21 GMT)
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'Journeyman' is indeed still in use, as mediamatrix says, but its meaning has changed considerably over time. Today it means "a skilled workman who is employed by another," according to the Concise Oxford English Dictionary, which has a UK bias; this is not necessarily incompatible with the www.skilledworkers reference, which is American. So the question is, what did it mean in 1830 and where? I don't have access to the full Oxford English Dictionary, which is the dictionary one really needs for translating historical documents, though it's available online.
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Note added at 18 hrs (2008-06-25 10:26:57 GMT)
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The Merriam-Webster (American) adds to the COED definition: "usually by the day." But both dictionaries refer to skill. So if the man in question was a skilled workman, then I would agree that 'journeyman' is probably better than 'day labourer', because 'labourer' implies the opposite.
'Journalier' originally had the meaning of 'journeyman' (see the Concise Oxford English Dictionary), but I think not by the 1830s.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2008-06-25 08:23:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
'Journeyman' is indeed still in use, as mediamatrix says, but its meaning has changed considerably over time. Today it means "a skilled workman who is employed by another," according to the Concise Oxford English Dictionary, which has a UK bias; this is not necessarily incompatible with the www.skilledworkers reference, which is American. So the question is, what did it mean in 1830 and where? I don't have access to the full Oxford English Dictionary, which is the dictionary one really needs for translating historical documents, though it's available online.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2008-06-25 10:26:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The Merriam-Webster (American) adds to the COED definition: "usually by the day." But both dictionaries refer to skill. So if the man in question was a skilled workman, then I would agree that 'journeyman' is probably better than 'day labourer', because 'labourer' implies the opposite.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jennifer Levey
: That's what it means, but 'journeyman' was in common use (in the UK at least) until the 2nd World War or even later.
4 hrs
|
2 days 2 hrs
agricultural labourer
ouvrier agricole
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