Aug 8, 2015 15:39
8 yrs ago
2 viewers *
français term
France
s'imposeraient
français vers anglais
Affaires / Finance
Assurances
The full paragraph, at the beginning of an insurance contract:
Le présent contrat d’assurance groupe est régi par le code des assurances, par l’article 2 de la loi n° 89-1009 du 31 décembre 1989 (complétée par les textes ultérieurs) et par les dispositions fiscales et sociales en vigueur. Les éventuelles évolutions ultérieures s’imposeraient au présent contrat.
I presume it means that later possible changes in the law will apply to the contract .... but what is the elegant translation for "s'imposer" in this context? Prevail? Be binding on? ....? Suggestions gratefully received (it's too hot to think where I am!)
Le présent contrat d’assurance groupe est régi par le code des assurances, par l’article 2 de la loi n° 89-1009 du 31 décembre 1989 (complétée par les textes ultérieurs) et par les dispositions fiscales et sociales en vigueur. Les éventuelles évolutions ultérieures s’imposeraient au présent contrat.
I presume it means that later possible changes in the law will apply to the contract .... but what is the elegant translation for "s'imposer" in this context? Prevail? Be binding on? ....? Suggestions gratefully received (it's too hot to think where I am!)
Proposed translations
(anglais)
| 4 +9 | shall apply |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
|
| 4 | (would) be incorporated into |
Adrian MM. (X)
|
| 2 | supersede |
Jonathan MacKerron
|
| 3 -2 | take precedence over |
patrickfor
|
Proposed translations
+9
4 heures
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in anglais
Specializes in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: anglais 
Works in: français vers anglais
Related KudoZ points
:
113
français term (edited):
s\'imposeraient
Selected
shall apply
The sentence in question is simply indicating that any developments (amendments, modficiations, new rules \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'n\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\' regs, etc.) will apply.
The French uses the conditional as this is hypothetical; it depends on the \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"évolutions\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" in question actually coming about. They may not. In English, the use of the word \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"any\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" is an effective natural option for the French conditional here. Then, a simple future with the formal \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"shall\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" does the trick for the verb.
As for the verb \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"simposer\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\", well, it means literally that such \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"évolutions\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" will \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"impose themselves\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\". New legislation, rules and/or regulations may simply override some of the existing ones.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"Any future/later changes (or whatever word you chose here) shall apply\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\".
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Note added at 4 hrs (2015-08-08 20:17:09 GMT)
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To be more precise, not only override (if updated), but also be added (if new provisions). Could also allow for some provisions to be done away with. Whatever.
To \\\\\\\"apply\\\\\\\" is an effective solution for all possible \\\\\\\"évolutions\\\\\\\".
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Note added at 4 hrs (2015-08-08 20:33:33 GMT)
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For info : http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=1707...
LOI
Loi n° 89-1009 du 31 décembre 1989 renforçant les garanties offertes aux personnes assurées contre certains risques.
NOR: SPSX8900080L
Version consolidée au 08 août 2015
• Titre Ier : Dispositions communes aux opération mises en oeuvre par les entreprises régies par le code des assurances, par les institutions relevant du titre III du livre VII du code de la sécurité sociale et de la section 4 du chapitre II du titre II du livre VII du code rural et par les mutuelles relevant du code de la mutualité. (abrogé)
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Note added at 4 hrs (2015-08-08 20:35:53 GMT)
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Maybe I\'ve muffed my explanation a little.
No conditional here in English, but future simple.
CHoice of verb : \"s\'imposer\" is strong. \"To apply\" covers all eventualities : overriding, additions, surpressions etc.
The French uses the conditional as this is hypothetical; it depends on the \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"évolutions\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" in question actually coming about. They may not. In English, the use of the word \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"any\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" is an effective natural option for the French conditional here. Then, a simple future with the formal \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"shall\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" does the trick for the verb.
As for the verb \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"simposer\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\", well, it means literally that such \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"évolutions\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" will \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"impose themselves\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\". New legislation, rules and/or regulations may simply override some of the existing ones.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"Any future/later changes (or whatever word you chose here) shall apply\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2015-08-08 20:17:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
To be more precise, not only override (if updated), but also be added (if new provisions). Could also allow for some provisions to be done away with. Whatever.
To \\\\\\\"apply\\\\\\\" is an effective solution for all possible \\\\\\\"évolutions\\\\\\\".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2015-08-08 20:33:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
For info : http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=1707...
LOI
Loi n° 89-1009 du 31 décembre 1989 renforçant les garanties offertes aux personnes assurées contre certains risques.
NOR: SPSX8900080L
Version consolidée au 08 août 2015
• Titre Ier : Dispositions communes aux opération mises en oeuvre par les entreprises régies par le code des assurances, par les institutions relevant du titre III du livre VII du code de la sécurité sociale et de la section 4 du chapitre II du titre II du livre VII du code rural et par les mutuelles relevant du code de la mutualité. (abrogé)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2015-08-08 20:35:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Maybe I\'ve muffed my explanation a little.
No conditional here in English, but future simple.
CHoice of verb : \"s\'imposer\" is strong. \"To apply\" covers all eventualities : overriding, additions, surpressions etc.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
writeaway
: I was waiting for you to show up. It\\\'s what I would have posted by I\\\'m not in an answering mood. Of course it\\\'s this, just as asker thought. /oeuf corse. shall is essential./don\'t agree at all with prevail. imo it\'s taking things too far.
30 minutes
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"Shall" is probably what gives "apply" strength. The Asker's own "prevail" (thus, "shall prevail") is better still.
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| agree |
mchd
38 minutes
|
| agree |
Jennifer White
1 heure
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| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
2 heures
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| agree |
erwan-l
9 heures
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| agree |
Wendy Streitparth
: Most likely legal formulation. / Also like override.
11 heures
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"Apply" is an undertranslation, "override" works, but only where replacing an existing provision. "S'imposer" covers the addition of new provisions too. Probably why I like "prevail" (with shall). ;-)
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| agree |
Daryo
: the image of "s'imposer" might be lost, but that's simply the meaning.
16 heures
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The Asker\'s \"prevail\" would be my choice and with \"shall\" it carries more weight. Probably a reasonable \"fit\" for \"s\'imposer\". The FR is more forceful, I agree.
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: \"apply\" but not \"prevail\"
20 heures
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| agree |
Paul Stevens
: for "apply".
1 jour 13 heures
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
7 minutes
Jonathan MacKerron
Native in anglais
Retired as of Jan 2019!
Native in: anglais
Works in: allemand vers anglais, français vers anglais
Related KudoZ points
:
4
français term (edited):
s\'imposeraient
supersede
springs to mind
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Note added at 10 mins (2015-08-08 15:50:28 GMT)
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shall supersede/take precendence over
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Note added at 10 mins (2015-08-08 15:50:28 GMT)
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shall supersede/take precendence over
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Wendy Streitparth
: Supercede, yes. / Oops - now I\'ve done a Nikki! I mean supersede.
16 heures
|
| disagree |
Daryo
: you are putting pears and apples in the same basket (laws are always above contracts, nothing new said by \"superseded\") here the point is about which version of the law would be applied in a transitional period.
21 heures
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40 minutes
français term (edited):
s\'imposer
(would) be incorporated into
IATE\\\'s glossary:
EUROPEAN UNION, LAW [COM] Full entry
FR
le Conseil n\\\'a pas dépassé de manière \\\"manifeste\\\" et \\\"grave\\\" les limites qui s\\\'imposent à l\\\'exercice de ses pouvoirs
EN
the Council did not \\\"manifestly and gravely\\\" disregard the limits on the exercise of its powers
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Note added at 43 mins (2015-08-08 16:22:57 GMT)
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https://books.google.at/books?id=KRiVM22pxGwC&pg=PA256&lpg=P...
Example sentence:
Therefore, incorporating elements into a contract that create flexibility can ensure ... of the contract can be renegotiated based upon changes in circumstances.
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
patrickfor
: /COMMENTAIRE MODIFIE
s\'imposer c\'est bien plus fort on n\'inclut pas on applique les changements requis par les textes (loi/réglementation) même si la lettre du contrat reste identique/
38 minutes
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http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Incorporation ...
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| neutral |
Daryo
: not the best formulation - the ST is about which version of laws will be applied in case there are changes in the legislation - the content of the contract itself would stay exactly the same
20 heures
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http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Incorporation ...
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-2
1 heure
patrickfor
France
France
Native in français
France
Native in: français (Variant: Standard-France) 
Works in: anglais vers français, français vers anglais
français term (edited):
s\'imposeraient
take precedence over
s\'imposer ici c\'est passer avant ce qui est dans le contrat
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: it's not that in this case. take precedence over what?
3 heures
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Any change in the fiscal/social regulations and/or in law 89-1009 will take take precedence on what is written, or related to, in the current contract and its subsequents documents
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| disagree |
mchd
: s'imposer dans ce contexte signifie s'appliquer.
3 heures
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L'auteur a choisi un mot plutot qu'un autre? Ce n'est pas à nous de dire que dans ce contexte ce mot a une autre signification. en Fr s'imposer n'est pas s'appliquer c'est plus fort. On peut discuter ce qui s'applique on ne discute pas ce qui s'impose.
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| disagree |
Daryo
: you seem to be confusing the content of the contract and the content of the legal textes
19 heures
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Agree, I didn't confused (I can read french) I wrongly thought this expression could be used. It can't !
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Discussion
the content of a contract - agreed between parties to the contract
the content of the law(s) applicable to the contract - imposed by a public authority
if you start mixing these two, you\'ll never have a clear picture.
HERE
Le présent contrat d’assurance groupe est régi par le code des assurances, par l’article 2 de la loi n° 89-1009 du 31 décembre 1989 (complétée par les textes ultérieurs) et par les dispositions fiscales et sociales en vigueur. Les éventuelles évolutions ultérieures s’imposeraient au présent contrat.
=>
Les éventuelles évolutions ultérieures [du code des assurances, et des dispositions fiscales et sociales en vigueur] s’imposeraient au présent contrat.
=>
Les éventuelles évolutions ultérieures [de la législation en vigueur] s’imposeraient au présent contrat.
the \"relationship\" between a LAW and a CONTRACT is that a law applies [or not] to a contract
Mes excuses pour @asker (Sam.) je n\'avais pas \"vu\" sa suggestion de départ.
\"To take precedence\" can be used when one thing has priority over another, e.g. EU law over national law. It could also be said to \"override\" national law.
\"To supersede\" can be used to describe when means something overrules an existing provision, in other words it has to replace something already there.
\"To take precedence\" and \"to supersede\" (which I always want to write \"-cede\") are not strictly identical in meaning, although the former may to some extent cover the latter more easily than the other way round.
\"Prevail\" does the job pretty well and is the most legalesy in contractual contexts. (Espcially with \"shall\". Had to get that in again! ;-))
my translation, or my understanding of the french text ?
I can make mistakes, I obviously don\'t deny that but I have seen many times the expression \"to take precedence over\" in what I think are almost identical cases
\"In addition, some EU legislation affects contract law because it takes precedence over national laws.\"
https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/contract-law-europe
\"Indeed if a written agreement does not properly reflect what has been agreed, the agreement takes precedence over the document.\"
\"a term specifically drafted for a particular purpose will take precedence over a standard term unless the contract provides otherwise;\"
http://constructionblog.practicallaw.com/ask-the-team-does-m...
S\'imposer veut dire sans ambiguité que personne ne pourra se prévaloir de l\'existant à la signature du contrat pour refuser de prendre en compte tout changement.
En clair si quelque chose disait \'bleu\" et que maintenant la loi dit \"vert\" ce sera vert même si ce n\'est pas écrit dans le contrat.
Les modifications de la loi/des textes reglementaires prennent la priorité sur ce qui est écrit et signé.