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status post infarctus myocardique avec fraction d’éjection réduite ;

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

stabilité de la pente

English translation:

stability of the (slope | gradient)

Added to glossary by French2English
Mar 3, 2007 23:33
17 yrs ago
French term

stabilité de la pente

French to English Tech/Engineering Engineering (general) Mechanical Biological Treatment - waste
As far as I understand it, this is talking about what is known as 'slope stability' - as applied to a landfill site and the associated risk of what I think is called 'shear' or 'slip'. I have really been scratching my head about this one, as, unless I am reading it wrong, it seems - to me at least - contradictory. The final bullet point appears to be saying that the slope stability should be REDUCED ... but if you look at the gradients, they are getting less steep, rather than steeper...in which case, surely the stability would be INCREASED? Do they mean to say 'slope gradient' here, perhaps? I am sure there is someone out there who can put me right on this one. With thanks in anticipation, here's the context:

Globalement, le pré-traitement conduit à :
- une baisse de la stabilité [3], et en particulier une baisse de l’angle de friction (ainsi qu‘une augmentation du risque de cisaillement) à cause de la baisse de cohésion des matériaux entre eux (cohésion trouvée : 10 à 62 kN/m2) [11]
- une baisse de la compressibilité [3] (de l’ordre de 90 % au lieu de 70 %) [9], qui serait également liée à la réduction des particules. Globalement le réarrangement simple sous l’effet du compacteur s’effectue plus vite mais de moindre amplitude (50 % de la compressibilité totale); par contre le comblement des micro-espaces par des particules plus fines s’effectue plus lentement que pour des déchets bruts (appelée aussi compressibilité secondaire).
- La ***stabilité de la pente*** devrait aussi être réduite : de 1:1 à 1:2 pour des déchets usuels, elle passe à 1:3 voire 1:3,5 pour des déchets pré-traités [11]
Proposed translations (English)
3 -1 stability of the (slope | gradient)
4 Stabilty of sliding down
1 +1 the slope or gradient determination, settling, permanence
1 -1 COMMENT ONLY

Discussion

Roddy Stegemann Mar 4, 2007:
So, if I have understood correctly . . . Because of the reduced cohesion and compressibility of the trash, the slope of each type of heap, both untreated and treated, must be made more level (less slope) to avoid slipping. So, why didn't the author make it plain himself? Certainly he failed to use parallel construction in his three points. More importantly, his third point is not grammatically logical with his introduction to the first two points. Surely, it is not just we who are unstable!
Odette Grille (X) Mar 4, 2007:
Thanks Tony...It starts my day ! as for the stability of our minds...Don't worry ! we will all end up in asylums and we'll play scrabble !
Tony M Mar 4, 2007:
Well done, Odette! Your native's view of the verb is very helpful, and exactly what I had got as a "feeling" for it, but couldn't express as well as you.
French2English (asker) Mar 4, 2007:
and after... ...re-reading this question, it's not so much the stability of my slope that is at stake as that of my mind! :)
French2English (asker) Mar 4, 2007:
Hamo, ....just read your later comment again... but in fact I didn't suggest that a less steep slope would reduce stability - if you read what I said carefully, you will see that I said (don't you just love 'cut and paste':
'but if you look at the gradients, they are getting less steep, rather than steeper...in which case, surely the stability would be INCREASED?'
But I do admit that the whole thing is confusing.
French2English (asker) Mar 4, 2007:
Thanks to all contributors... ...to be fair, I really do think this was about how it was expressed...in terms of stability or instability - and how you look at the whole sliding heap of slurry! Very helpful contributions and I just love the -1, -1 on the answers.... it's getting like Blair and Cameron at the House of Commons!
Odette Grille (X) Mar 4, 2007:
What I understand, about 'devrait' is that the treatment of waste before they are piled makes reduces the overall stability. The first "une baisse de la stabilité" is about the resulting filling material, the second also and the third is the consequence of the two first ones, thus devrait (containing the underlying meaning of as 'a consequence the stability of the pile or the fill area' will also be reduced...)...Heuh...Does that help ?
Roddy Stegemann Mar 4, 2007:
Look under the heading "Soyez prudents et préparés" or perform a FIND command for the phrase "le degré de la pente" on the following website: https://www.ec.gc.ca/EnviroZine/french/issues/50/feature3_f....

Although it is likely that the term "stabilité de la pente" exists, in this particular context it is the "instabilité de la pente" that is reduced -- not its stability!
Roddy Stegemann Mar 4, 2007:
You have written much since I last posted, and I apologize for leading you astray. Clearly slope is equal to the change in Y over the change in X, and the colon in the expression 1:10 represents an expression of that ratio. You still appear confused, however, when you suggest that a less steep slope would reduce stability. This is surely not the case. I usually give the author the benefit of the doubt, but in this case the term "stabilité de la pente" is clearly in error. Rather, it should be something like "le degré de la pente".
French2English (asker) Mar 4, 2007:
so... ...my original theory of these slopes getting less steep IS correct? Well, at least I got that bit right, then...! But you must admit that the term 'stability' as it is used here, is slightly confusing, as you would expect a less steep slope to increase rather than reduce stability...but I guess the concept of 'what the slurry will tolerate' is the key here... very helpful, thank you - I finally understand it...had felt I was on the slippery slope over this one, for quite some time! :)
French2English (asker) Mar 4, 2007:
Tony... ...yes indeed... you are quite right that a lot hangs on that 'devrait' - which I had wondered about and indeed had originally translated, actually, as '...may also be reduced' (which, in fact sounds slightly ambiguous)... but your way of putting it is much better .... it clears that point up, for sure.... now, just let me get my head back around the 'math' and the nature of the slippery slope!
French2English (asker) Mar 4, 2007:
oops.... ....and now I see that Tony has turned it all over again.... now, let me try and get my head around this again... geometry clearly not one of my strong points!
French2English (asker) Mar 4, 2007:
Hamo, Thank you for your answer, and yes, I can see how the slope of the hypotenuse becomes steeper in the triangle you describe. I guess I am drawing the wrong kind of triangle in my head.... based on road signs, in which, I believe, a '1-in-10 hill' means you travel 1 metre upwards for every 10 metres you travel along - doesn't it, usually? To compare like with like, let's equate the two measurements and say 10 instead of 3.5. So, in your (very good) example, the base is 1 and the vertical side is 10, whereas in my imagined triangle, the hypotenuse (along which one travels) is 10 and the vertical side of the triangle is 1. And I suppose the base is slightly less than 10. Looks like the whole stability issue depends on which kind of triangle you use, then...if my 1:10 road slope theory is correct. But I suppose they are talking about varying the depth of the landfill, rather than its width/length, which would obviously affect the gradient of the slope and thus its stability. I can see that now...thanks!

Proposed translations

-1
42 mins
Selected

stability of the (slope | gradient)

La stabilité de la pente devrait aussi être réduite : de 1:1 à 1:2 pour des déchets usuels, elle passe à 1:3 voire 1:3,5 pour des déchets pré-traités.

Under the assumption that the point of reference is flat ground, an increasingly steeper slope is well represented by the proportions given. This is because horizontal distance is always measured before vertical distance on a set of coordinate axes.

Imagine a right triangle whose base is always one, but whose vertical side is steadily increased from 1 to 3.5. Surely, you can see how the slope of the hypothenuse (side opposite the right angle) becomes increasingly steep.

In any case it is the slope of the surface of the trash -- not the slope of the ground that is important here, is it not?
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Sorry, no, that's completely backwards! Slope is always expressed with the V first, so 1 in 50 means you go up/down 2 cm per horizontal metre
16 mins
No need to feel bad on my part. You are certainly correct as the ratio of any two numbers is commonly expressed with the numerator first and the denominator last. My error.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This was a tough one to grade, because there was so much helpful input from everyone. And even though Hamo got things round the wrong way to begin with (and so did I, believe me!) I think he deserves the points in the end - although he should really share them with Tony - whose answer was 'comment only'. Thanks too to Odette for clarifying the hauntingly beautiful 'devrait' (!) and its nuance... and to Catherine and narasimha too for their input. Everything was hugely helpful and I am very grateful to you all - together, we got there in the end and now we can all slide down the slope for a bit of fun! "
-1
57 mins

COMMENT ONLY

I think you are reading it the wrong way round; because this finer slurry is more slippery, it won't tolerate as steep a slope; but they're not saying "you must reduce the steepness of the slope", but rather "you must expect slope stability to be reduced" — the 1:2 is not actually expressing the steepness of the slope (though of course that's what it means), so much as the stability, expressed in terms of the maximum slope tolerated.

Am I making myself clear? The logic of the expression is right, it's just the way round you read that "devrait" that makes it seem wrong.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-04 00:34:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"conventional waste has a slope stability of 1:1 to 1:2 (i.e. will tolerate slopes that steep)"

"this new kind of finer waste has a reduced slope stability of only 1:3 to 1:3.5" (those are of course *shallower* slopes!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-04 01:15:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here are the slope angles in degrees calculated for the various slopes mentioned:

1:1 = 45°
1:2 = 26.6°
1:3 = 18.4°
1:3.5 = 16°
Peer comment(s):
disagree Roddy Stegemann : Now that I understand clearly the meaning of the Y:X notation, I realize that we have both made an effort to excuse what is clearly poor notation on the part of the author. // No further comment.
4 hrs
Thanks, Hamo! I really don't think there is any error on the part of the author, it is simply the slightly cock-eyed way of expressing it using the verb 'devrait' that rings odd to non-FR ears.
Something went wrong...
+1
10 hrs

the slope or gradient determination, settling, permanence

out of the blue:
Could not it be that the slope is allowed to "settle",to set itself over time and therefore, reducing the pre-set initial "stability" to let it adapt to the ground would indeed be a positive factor? Something like letting the elasticity of the whole thing work to the better?
Now do not howl all of you at my "ignorant guesssing", :) a mere piece of logic and imagining the why and how of this apparently odd bit!!!Maybe our collegue can imagine the right thing along those lines eventhough my version is obviously not ideal!
Peer comment(s):
agree Odette Grille (X) : Catherine, no question is stupid. Else the first guy who wondered why an apple had fallen on his head would be really dumb...Yes, I know you meant your answer :)
46 mins
thks! never said question was stupid, i referred to my answer!!!
Something went wrong...
1 day 3 hrs

Stabilty of sliding down

The subject seems to be using waste for land refilling. It also mentions about the waste as is and also about compacted waste. The stability is low in case of non-compacted waste to compacted waste. when these waste is dumped in a land fill, the waste has to stay in place and should not slide down.As mentioned, the compacted waste has a higher stability than that non-compacted.
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