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Symphonik
Hausumschwung
May 15, 2007 12:08
17 yrs ago
German term

begleitende Kultur

German to English Art/Literary Tourism & Travel Design-Hotels
Beschreibung eines Hotels:

Dieser Ort als Stück begleitender Kultur umhüllt den Gast, umgibt ihn wie ein Kleidungsstück aus feinem Material, das – wohl gewählt – sowohl Bewegungsfreiheit als auch Festlichkeit verleiht.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 cultural flair
5 +3 leave it out
3 +1 This establishment, so completely in tune with the national/regional/local culture, …
3 imbued with culture-specific attributes
3 a cultural environment / a place featuring (a) modern-art design
2 local culture

Discussion

Francis Lee (X) May 16, 2007:
Moderators ahoy! Could you please formally remind our esteemed colleagues above that the AtA box is - as the name suggests - for queries only (which is why my comments, at least, feature question marks)? Ta!
Francis Lee (X) May 16, 2007:
Can you at least reveal how you crowbarred "cultural flair" into that sentence?
Claudia Hall (asker) May 16, 2007:
Sorry Bernhard - just noticed my typo...
Francis Lee (X) May 16, 2007:
So is there any consensus at all on what the opening half-sentence means? Is "Ort" the hotel or a particular part thereof? And "begleitende Kultur" has me thinking of a nasty virus you can catch while on holiday. I'd ask the (wannabe) "author" ...
Henry Schroeder May 15, 2007:
I just recommend cutting the "als Stück begleitender Kultur", the rest is fine...
BrigitteHilgner May 15, 2007:
the cultural environment - I guess the architect wants to be different and differentiate the hotel from its environment.
BrigitteHilgner May 15, 2007:
I don't how much Henry wants to cut, I don't suggest to leave out the whole sentence, just this one expression. I would probably write: This cultivated hotel ... Of course I don't know, but I have the sneaking suspicion the hotel might not go well with
Claudia Hall (asker) May 15, 2007:
Don't know much about readership - sorry. In terms of the "leave it out" approach, I'm generally quite happy to change things and not stick to the original if I don't think it sounds right. I was wondering about saying something like "a part of the cultural landscape"...?
Francis Lee (X) May 15, 2007:
Readership? No ideas of your own? What about the "leave it out" approach?
Claudia Hall (asker) May 15, 2007:
This is part of a translation I'm doing about modern hotels. The client (actually my client's client) is an architect, who is describing his "philosophy". The way I understand the bit about the culture is that the architect uses and expresses his thoughts on modern culture (visual arts, music etc.) when designing his hotels. I don't have any specific examples, though...
Francis Lee (X) May 15, 2007:
Are you asking out of interest or is this for a professional translation? Context/readership? What are your own thoughts?
Claudia Hall (asker) May 15, 2007:
Stimmt - ziemlich viele Wörter, aber wenig Inhalt...
Zu Brigitte: Das Hotel selbst ist der Ort, in dem der Architekt "ein Stück Kultur" umsetzt.
BrigitteHilgner May 15, 2007:
nehmen.
BrigitteHilgner May 15, 2007:
Grauenvolles Deutsch! Was ich nicht verstehe: Ist das Hotel der erwähnte Ort oder liegt das Hotel an/in einem Ort, der die begleitende Kultur bietet? (Fiktives Beispiel: Hotel im Salzburger Festspielhaus) In letzterem Fall würde ich "cultural environment"

Proposed translations

+1
15 hrs
Selected

cultural flair

The image created here is "culture as a fabric" - mind you, not a heavy fabric, but rather a very delicate fabric, almost a veil. This veil is barely visible yet always present, and has become an inseparable part of the location.

I think a translation could use the very same picture:

The cultural flair of this place [softly/gently] embraces/enfolds/ envelops the guest…

The guest is captivated by the cultural flair, feels [softly ]enveloped /enfolded as with a garment of the finest cloth

Can certainly be fine-tuned by native speakers, but this is the gist

Peer comment(s):
agree casper (X) : 'Cultural distinctiveness', perhaps? Well translated, Johanna
11 mins
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I like your translation, Johanna - thanks. I thought Bernard's ideas were also really good. Thanks to everyone for a lively discussion and interesting feedback - much appreciated!"
+3
6 mins

leave it out

What nonsense the German original is
Peer comment(s):
agree David Moore (X)
10 mins
You made my day, thanks, I mean absolutely no offense to Claudia, but "als" and "Stuck" and "Kultur" - how utterly ridiculous can one write.
agree BrigitteHilgner : This was probably the architect/interior designer expressing himself/herself in words.// It depends. Publishers don't allow translators to cut out paragraphs (editors do that) but I may delete sentences at my discretion. And I sometimes do!
23 mins
...better left out. Thanks. Do you actually often leave things out? We've agreed on this point before. I'm translating some book now and I leave parts out all the time, // I certainly haven't deleted any paragraphs, that'd be a bold move :-)
agree Courtney Sliwinski : The metaphors are terribly mixed up!!!
52 mins
Something went wrong...
54 mins

imbued with culture-specific attributes

The place(or: venue), imbued with culture-specific attributes,...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lancashireman : Might work if the idea is to produce something as overblown as other commentators accuse the original of being. But what is your view on the controversy surrounding omission here, Chetan? Do you think the concept of ‘Kultur’ can simply be ignored?
3 hrs
I like yr suave irony :-) I pat myself on my back for faithfully transferring the 'overblown-ness' from the original into English ;-) Rendering the concept of 'Kultur' is a translator's challenge;"simply ignoring"it wd B tantamount 2 throwing in the towel
Something went wrong...
+1
20 mins
German term (edited): Dieser Ort als Stück begleitender Kultur...

This establishment, so completely in tune with the national/regional/local culture, …

This is a ‘description of the hotel itself’, you say?

(For ‘culture’ you could always try the F Lee solution: ‘heritage’)


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Note added at 31 mins (2007-05-15 12:39:35 GMT)
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This establishment, so completely in tune with its cultural environment
(Combination of this answer and Brigitte's suggestion above)

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-05-15 13:26:55 GMT)
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Re your 3rd note: There is a world of difference between 'changing things and not sticking to the original' on the one hand and 'leaving it out' on the other.
Something like "a part of the cultural landscape" would be quite reasonable in this context.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-05-15 14:09:43 GMT)
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Oh dear, the AtA box is filling up again. People suggesting translations there instead of posting them below. Some even using the box to endorse an answer that they themselves posted some time earlier...
Peer comment(s):
agree Trudy Peters : something like that :-)
4 mins
Thanks, Trudy. It would indeed be sad if the phrase were to be spurned by the translator. In any case, this is a policy that could lead to an unpleasant response from the client. Perhaps even to pay being docked!
neutral Francis Lee (X) : It's nice to know I'm in your thoughts, Andrew. It's a shame the Asker appears to have zero ideas of her own, though. Behold the limitations of non-natives ...
35 mins
Thanks for your ‘agree’, Francis. I am amazed at the bandwagon building up for ‘Omit’. It is more staggering than the usual Gadarene rush to endorse ‘Do not translate’. (Sorry, just noticed this was only a ‘neutral’)
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

local culture

"This hotel, a part of the local culture in its own right, embraces its guests like clothing ..."
Something went wrong...
5 hrs

a cultural environment / a place featuring (a) modern-art design

Literally, a piece/place of "accompanying culture", the idea (IMO) a place where the guest is surrounded/accompanied by "culture/modern art" = a cultural/cultivated/artsy environment - I would use ingredients like that for the sentence.

other possibilities:
an establishment where the guest is surrounded by "culture/modern art//..that surrounds its guest with culture/modern art
a culturally (artistically) expressive place/establishment
a culturally aware environment
a place accompanied by/expressing culture/art/modern art
a place of modern-art design

this would fit Claudia's understanding
"...about the culture is that the architect uses and expresses his thoughts on modern culture (visual arts, music etc.) when designing his hotels."

I would therefore also leave in the "Kultur"-part or choose a word that expresses the idea of "Kultur." "Ein Stück" could possibly be left out in some renderings.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2007-05-15 17:23:16 GMT)
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PS: thanks Brigitte. I think this goes towards what Brigitte was suggesting above.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2007-05-15 17:59:53 GMT)
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maybe use "contemporary art/culture" or "modern culture" for "modern art" because modern art covers a rather specific art/cultural period (-1970).

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Note added at 5 hrs (2007-05-15 18:05:48 GMT)
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so, instead of modern-art design -

maybe: a place of/ featuring a (very) modern design

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Note added at 5 hrs (2007-05-15 18:07:08 GMT)
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or: if not modern at all, more general:

a place of culture

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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-05-15 18:09:48 GMT)
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or: a place full of culture
a very cultivated place/environment

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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-05-15 18:58:11 GMT)
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as Andrew points out, "cultivated" would not be a good choice here. We're not talking about carrots.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lancashireman : Nothing about art (either classical or modern) in the source text, Bernhard. Glad to learn, though, that when you hear the word 'Kultur', you don't reach for your gun // 'Cultivated place' = 'field'
41 mins
Ouch! I am not much of a gardner. But yes, I can see the field now.
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