Oct 4, 2011 01:06
12 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
faute
French to English
Social Sciences
Psychology
Mediation & conciliation
"L’erreur n’est pas une **faute,** mais seulement un mot pour désigner que l’on n’obtient pas l’effet souhaité."
From a training presentation on mediation. (Canadian French to Canadian EN). So far, I am leading toward "An error is not a fault, but only a term to indicate that you cannot obtain the desired effect."
But I am not sure that the word "fault" conveys the idea of agency [i.e., capacity to act]. Also, am I missing a nuance of the FR word faute?
googling the phrase provides URLs such as
http://www.lalibre.be/debats/opinions/article/67002/faire-un...
http://books.google.ca/books?id=1y2fbBi7UdIC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&...
But skimming through these sites doesn't provide me w/ sufficient confidence -- that is why I am asking ProZ.
From a training presentation on mediation. (Canadian French to Canadian EN). So far, I am leading toward "An error is not a fault, but only a term to indicate that you cannot obtain the desired effect."
But I am not sure that the word "fault" conveys the idea of agency [i.e., capacity to act]. Also, am I missing a nuance of the FR word faute?
googling the phrase provides URLs such as
http://www.lalibre.be/debats/opinions/article/67002/faire-un...
http://books.google.ca/books?id=1y2fbBi7UdIC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&...
But skimming through these sites doesn't provide me w/ sufficient confidence -- that is why I am asking ProZ.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +1 | fault | Nikki Scott-Despaigne |
3 | mistake | Sarita Mardon |
3 | fault | Ide Verhelst (X) |
2 | omission [or: failure] to act | casper (X) |
2 | weakness | reeny |
3 -1 | flaw or blunder | Verginia Ophof |
Change log
Oct 4, 2011 06:56: Tony M changed "Term asked" from "faute (this context)" to "faute"
Proposed translations
+1
19 hrs
Selected
fault
Might I suggest adopting a different approach and leave well enough alone with the words "error" and "fault" which I think are faithful conveyors of the author's intention? Might I suggest, however, that substituting "be" may be a good ploy?
Sugegstion :
"Error" does not mean "fault"...
"Error" does not imply "fault"...
"Error" does not suggest "fault"..
Sugegstion :
"Error" does not mean "fault"...
"Error" does not imply "fault"...
"Error" does not suggest "fault"..
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tony M
: I rather think you're right, and using synonyms will only actualy complicate matters and cloud the basic concept.
45 mins
|
I think that we tend sometimes to want to translate and complicate things which do not need to be touched at all! Translating is a great job for creating complications which are not there, for asking questions that we do not need to ask ourselves!
|
|
neutral |
Kevin SC
: errors are rarely deliberate whereas faults often are delberate and deserve to be termed wrongdoing
13 hrs
|
That's a matter of interpretation! Why look complicate a very simple original which can be represented accurately by very simple English? French and English versions will then withstand semantic analysis on identical terms!
|
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank-you for your thoughtful discussion comments, they reassured me in my translation."
4 hrs
omission [or: failure] to act
Am not sure I understand the context right, so am suggesting an answer based on your comment about the target word conveying "the idea of agency [i.e., capacity to act]"
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Note added at 4 hrs (2011-10-04 05:13:17 GMT)
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Alternatively:
'perform' may be used instead of 'act'.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2011-10-04 05:13:17 GMT)
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Alternatively:
'perform' may be used instead of 'act'.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: But that would only be one particular, quite narrow type of 'faute'; it could equally well be a willful act.
1 hr
|
Thanks, Tony. Like I said, "Am not sure I understand the context right".
|
5 hrs
mistake
maybe this conveys the idea of agency better...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: I think that would be better for 'erreur'; it's all about the "to errr is human..." thing
20 mins
|
5 hrs
weakness
Might be barking up the wrong tree, just a suggestion...
http://www.evancarmichael.com/Business-Coach/2688/The-People...
http://www.evancarmichael.com/Business-Coach/2688/The-People...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: I was thinking along the same lines, but again, this seems to me like only a subset of all possible 'fautes'; likewise 'shortcoming' (i.e. something you could be blamed for)
21 mins
|
13 hrs
fault
I think you got it right the first time round.
I would argue that a fault or "faute", is an error that you make willingly and knowingly, whereas an error is, well, just a more or less innocent mistake.
I would argue that a fault or "faute", is an error that you make willingly and knowingly, whereas an error is, well, just a more or less innocent mistake.
-1
16 hrs
flaw or blunder
suggestion
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Tony M
: I'm afraid I don't think either of those would work at all naturally in EN; 'flaw' is definitely out, that would better translate 'défaut'; and 'blunder' is more like some kind of accidental 'error' than the 'faute' we have here
6 mins
|
Discussion
The problem here is to avoid "over-translating". We all wish to avoid the false friend trap. However, there is another trap : seeking to repair something which is not broken. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. If ordinary words will do, use ordinary words, even if they seem too ordinary to be true.
As the French put it, rather tongue in cheek :
Pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué?
Sugegstion :
"Error" does not mean "fault"...
"Error" does not imply "fault"...
"Error" does not suggest "fault"...
etc
Consider the meaning of 'faute' in the term 'faute professionnelle', which may sometimes be translated as 'professional misconduct' (though in other contexts, that might not be suitable).