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Dec 19, 2013 05:39
10 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Russian term

авторская сказка

Russian to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature description of a children's story
I have the often problematic adjective авторский, in this case in the following context:

Это детская авторская сказка про ________ .

Author's story doesn't sound right because all stories are written by an author. In this case, I believe that they are referring to the fact that they are the ones that created the iPad app and it was also them who wrote the story.

Does anyone have some suggestions for me please?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +9 original fairy tale
3 +5 fairy tale (writen by...)
4 narration or narrative tale
3 +1 art house
4 self published
3 the story line developed by...
3 modern fairy tale
3 a work of authorship children's fairy tale

Discussion

skymir Dec 20, 2013:
Hi Paul, in response to your comment:

Vanity Press: Differences from mainstream and self-publishers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_press

"The term "vanity press" is sometimes considered pejorative and is often used to imply that an author who uses such a service is only publishing out of vanity and that his or her work could not be commercially successful. In other words, a work published by a vanity press is typically assumed to be unpublishable elsewhere or not publishable on a timely basis."

Granted a writer may have his own reasons to publish his book and one of them may be out of "vanity." However , I think there is a clear distinction between the two.
skymir Dec 20, 2013:
You are very welcome. It was a tricky one!
Sarah McDowell (asker) Dec 20, 2013:
I meant your last entry skymir, a self-published book.
Sarah McDowell (asker) Dec 20, 2013:
Thank you very much everyone! All of your answers and the discussion is very helpful to me.

I decided to use both Elizabeth Adams' and skymir's answers in my translation depending on the context. Can I award some points to both of them? Or is this allowed?

Thanks again,

Sarah
skymir Dec 20, 2013:
And to you as well.
The Misha Dec 19, 2013:
Well, by all means, stick to your guns. I am not trying to change the world here, not for free anyway. Just making a stray observation, is all. Happy Festivus to you, sir.
skymir Dec 19, 2013:
Dear Misha,
First of all, if you had read the rest of the entries, you would see that your point is irrelevant now. As to whether or not the name of a genre is logical is a moot point. I don't know if I would go so far as to equate a grammatical mistake with a literary genre. Maybe you would also remove Post Modernism as an art movement, arguing something can't be post modern because that is an oxymoron. Or perhaps conceptual art, since a concept is something that does not yet exist whereas art by definition has a form. When we speak about a genre, we speak about a movement that is attributed a name. These names do not have to follow any conventions. In fact by their very definition they break conventions. The examples that you have cited are common expressions and grammatical mistakes in every day speech and have nothing to do with establish genres. The purpose of these forums, I believe, are not to analyze the political or social underpinnings of the English language, but to find the best translation in regards to meaning that we can. The very collocation that we are discussing <<авторская сказа>> taken in a literal way is absurd and hence the "nonsensical" translation.
The Misha Dec 19, 2013:
Skymir, "Narrative children's stories" is a great example of nonsensical use by the deconstructivist bunch and some such. Think about it: a story, or a tale, is a narrative by definition. Saying "narrative story" is the same as saying "povestvovatelnyi rasskaz", i.e. "maslo maslyanoye". I am not saying it is not being said, but then "more prettier" and "at a high rate of speed" is also being said a lot. That said (man, that's an awful lot of said's:) you do as you see fit, of course.
Paul Hirsh Dec 19, 2013:
Agree with Skymir Agree with Skymir, like French "film d'auteur"!
skymir Dec 19, 2013:
I have been try to wrap my head around what is really being referred to here and when I really thought about it, in Russian when you say авторский фильм for example, you are referring to the way that it was made. I would translate авторский фильм as an "independent film." The implication being that it is the filmmaker who made all the decisions pertaining to how the film was made. The equivalent for a writer would be self-published and it is already implied of course that it was he/she who wrote the book but has creative control. I decided to verify my hunch and out of curiosity did a search of the some self-published books on both Russian and English websites and lo and behold, the edition notices matched - ООО «Издательство«Авторская книга»
skymir Dec 19, 2013:
This reply is for "The Misha": Yes they are called folktales. There are millions of references to "narrative children's stories or fairy tales. In fact that is the essence of a narrative - as told in one's own words rather than a retelling of a story i.e. a folktale. An "original fairytale" to me could imply a story written in an original way i.e are different than others and maybe therfore misleading.
Paul Hirsh Dec 19, 2013:
This sounds like a "calque" on the French expression "livre d'auteur" as in "cinéma d'auteur" for which English has no exact equivalent. What it means is that the writer was allowed (a certain amount of) free rein to indulge himself.
katerina turevich Dec 19, 2013:
Authored or Authentic? as in "One touchstone of the authentic fairy tale is that it is presented as wholly credible". Ok, thius is from Wiki, and about Tolkien... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Fairy-Stories ; or "Assumptions about a good or "authentic" fairy tale created the canon of the genre, a canon that has come to include Perrault but exclude most of his female"; or "I don't think I had a book at that stage that was specifically the fairy tales of the brothers Grimm. But I did learn early to distinguish between them and the authored tales of Hans Christian Andersen (and Walter de la Mare and William Thackeray).
I think you have your distinction. Indeed, there is a "folk" and an "äuthored" fairy tale, and you can always tell the difference between the two.
skymir Dec 19, 2013:
Your welcome. I think that either "a children's narrative tale/story" or "a narrative tale for children" would both work. Perhaps "a children's narration" might sound as if it were the child who was doing the narrating :)) I found a few references for the examples above: http://www.unc.edu/~jarnold/papers/diss/fulldissertation.doc... http://www.kon.org/urc/caton.html. Дейтские скаски could be translated either way I think or simply fairytale.

Proposed translations

+9
36 mins
Selected

original fairy tale

I would call it an original fairy tale. That makes it clear that it was written by this individual and is not taken from traditional sources.
Peer comment(s):
agree Alexandra Schneeuhr
1 hr
agree Shelley Fairweather-Vega : Definitely agree with this option.
1 hr
agree Naveen Kar
1 hr
agree Paul Hirsh : the nearest possibility
3 hrs
agree The Misha
5 hrs
agree Rachel Douglas : With "original." One could omit "fairy" (as in de la Mare's "Twice Told Tales"), and write "an original tale for children about ---"
9 hrs
agree Natalia Volkova
9 hrs
agree Tatiana Lammers
12 hrs
agree cyhul
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
15 mins

narration or narrative tale

авторский here refers to being in the original or in "one's own words." Typically it is translated as authorial but also has the meaning of being a narration.

http://www.almaany.com/en/dict/en-ru/авторский/
Example sentence:

narration: авторский комментарий ; дикторский текст ; изложение ; повествование ; рассказ ; текст от автора

Note from asker:
Thanks! So would you call it a "children's narrative tale" or children's narration? It has to make sense along with the word "children's".
Peer comment(s):
neutral The Misha : Are there non-narrative tales?
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
+5
38 mins

fairy tale (writen by...)

In Russian, "авторская сказка" (fairy tale that has a particular author) is opposed to "народная сказка" (folk tale which has no any particular author). I am not sure that there is a good equivalent for that in English. So, I would translate it simply as a "fairy tale" or "fairy tale written by..." (if mentioned).
Peer comment(s):
agree Susan Welsh : Your explanation is particularly helpful. This answer or Elizabeth's are both good.
6 hrs
thanks!
agree katerina turevich : authored
7 hrs
thanks!
agree The Misha : Sure, this works. Skip that "authored" part though.
11 hrs
thanks!
agree LilianNekipelov : I agree.
14 hrs
thanks!
agree Natalia Volkova : The most exact version, in my opinion.
1 day 11 hrs
thanks!
Something went wrong...
1 hr

the story line developed by...

As an option for consideration))).
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

modern fairy tale

If it was written by a modern writer.
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

a work of authorship children's fairy tale

This would work if you feel from the context that the copyright may be implied. "A work of authorship" - авторская работа - something that can be protected by copyright law.
Peer comment(s):
neutral The Misha : Have you actually heard anyone put it this way in English? I mean, English as she is actually spoken. I almost fell asleep mid-sentence.
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs

art house

If this is авторский as in авторское кино (Paul mentioned that), art house would work.
Peer comment(s):
agree skymir : It also seems to me that авторский in the context provided would make more sense
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
19 hrs

self published



As Peter and Alexander mentioned, авторский фильм refers to the way a film was made. I would translate авторский фильм as an "independent film." The implication being that it is the filmmaker who made all the decisions pertaining to how the film was made. The equivalent for a writer would be self-published and it is already implied of course that it was he/she who wrote the book but has creative control.

See discussion entries

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day7 hrs (2013-12-20 13:02:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This passage may be of interest:

http://www.rarebook-spb.ru/press/publications/7/
П.С: Знаете, существует такой термин: "авторская книга". Мне, признаться, он не очень нравится, но он существует в обиходе, так же как, скажем, "рисовая бумага". На самом деле это неправильно, почему-то почти все художники восточную бумагу (китайскую, японскую) называют рисовой, хотя из риса бумагу не делают. Откуда это взялось, непонятно. Точно так же оббстоят дела с авторской книгой. Что такое авторская книга? Автор - кто в нашем случае? Возьмем ту же "Антигону": Швембергер? Копылков? Скорее, если быть точными, мы делаем библиофильскую книгу. Такой термин, кстати, в профессиональной среде есть. И означает - книгу, которая издана специальным малым тиражом. Это изначально редкая книга, с оригинальными иллюстрациями художника, выполненная ручным набором на ручной бумаге и переплетенная индивидуально. Именно этот термин полностью соответствует тому, что мы делаем. Хотя у нас есть некоторые издания, которые, скорее, относятся к разряду "книга художника", кстати, этот термин - калька с французского.
По сути дела, наше издательство - целая мануфактура, и не всегда художник работает самостоятельно от начала до конца. Дизайн может придумываться нами совместно. Порой художник, хороший график бывает, увы, беспомощен, когда речь идет о дизайне книги. Но это и не страшно, и не обидно для графиков, поскольку это совсем другая область книжного дела, а у каждого ремесла своя специфика. В случае с "Антигоной", например, для создания обложки пришлось пригласить художника-керамиста М. Копылкова
Peer comment(s):
neutral Paul Hirsh : self-published generally refers to the vanity press
9 hrs
I am not sure where you get that from. "The key distinguishing characteristic of self-publishing is that the author has decided to publish his or her work independent of a publishing house" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-publishing#Vanity_publishi...
Something went wrong...
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