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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Tschocherl

English translation:

dive/hole-in-the-wall/watering hole/corner café

Added to glossary by Ramey Rieger (X)
Mar 9, 2017 17:35
7 yrs ago
German term

Tschocherl

German to English Other Tourism & Travel Viennese slang
I'm looking for an English equivalent of a Tschocherl - a Viennese word often used to describe a small Beisl or Weinstüberl round the corner.

the Ostarrichi.org definition at http://www.ostarrichi.org/wort-5031-Tschocherl-kleines_meist...

is "kleines, meist schlechtes Café"

Would "spit-and-sawdust" work in British English?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 dive/hole-in-the-wall
4 +2 corner cafe
4 +2 watering hole
2 old-school bar
Change log

Mar 21, 2017 10:14: Ramey Rieger (X) Created KOG entry

Discussion

Michael Bailey (asker) Mar 21, 2017:
went for dive not to limit to a bar or cafe thanks all!
misterherrnau Mar 11, 2017:
Note to James Nixon Walking from Brompton Road to the Austrian Cultural Forum on Rutland Gate, you can take a shortcut through 'the hole in the wall': http://www.londonremembers.com/memorials/rutland-estate-hole...
misterherrnau Mar 10, 2017:
Tschecherl H.C. Artmann's "Wörterbuch Österreichisch-Deutsch," a highly reliable source on matters of Austrian dialect, has an entry for Tschecherl with an e: kleines Lokal, no pejorative adjective
Ramey Rieger (X) Mar 10, 2017:
Explanatory Tschocherl (a local dive). a bit more a musing and perhaps more appropriate for a blog - Tchocherl (local do(dew)-drop-in)
Michael Bailey (asker) Mar 10, 2017:
The sentence it appears in is in English. Far removed from the world of system gastronomy, chain restaurants, fast food and street food outlets, Vienna's outer districts are home to many Tschocherl - which are a living tribute to former times, when the pace of life was more relaxed than it is in the 21st century.
philgoddard Mar 9, 2017:
I meant what's the sentence containing the word.
Michael Bailey (asker) Mar 9, 2017:
context is for an Expats blog post probably more explanatory then out-and-out translation.
philgoddard Mar 9, 2017:
Why do you need an English equivalent? Wouldn't it be better left in German, followed by an explanation such as your "spit-and-sawdust/greasy spoon"? (The latter is fine, by the way.) What's the context?
Michael Bailey (asker) Mar 9, 2017:
good point... about the suggestion for a caff as a noun. The problem is that elsewhere Tschocherl is used both for a Beisl and a Weinstüberl. A friend suggested a greasy spoon, but that is too much a cultural transplantation I think.
Edwin Miles Mar 9, 2017:
Perhaps "spit-and-sawdust caff"... considering Tschocherl is a noun.

Proposed translations

+6
14 mins
Selected

dive/hole-in-the-wall

both are rather negative terms, but can also be a fond moniker fot one's local café, bistro or cabaret
Note from asker:
@ Johanna - interesting that in that link it talks about a "Spelunke" in Germany.
Peer comment(s):
agree Wendy Streitparth : Yes, like dive and just "hole" would do too.
1 hr
Dump would also do it. Hope you're well Wendy!
agree Johanna Timm, PhD : http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/164034/a-word-for...
1 hr
Greetings, my dear!
agree phillee : Dive covers everything
2 hrs
It was also the name of a club I played at in New York!
agree AllegroTrans : dive
2 hrs
In!
agree writeaway : Great, really really great
3 hrs
Nothing trumped-up about it.
agree Harris Morgan : Yes, "dive" works for me
5 hrs
Jack-knife or just a big splash?
disagree James Nixon : A hole in the wall in BE would be an ATM, and a dive bar is a mainly US concept, so I do not think either would be appropriate for BE.
21 hrs
You're entitled.
agree jccantrell : I thought immediatel of 'dive bar' in the USA if they have a liquor license. Can't even guess about BE.
2 days 21 hrs
Hi JJ. Dive (without bar) is listed in the OED, albeit as an Americanism. But still, it's there.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Went for dive in the end - the term gets used on a few sites like knowhere.co.uk"
+2
3 hrs

corner cafe

Perhaps even 'corner pub'. Some sources refer to it as a Cafe, some as Lokal. How bad they are seems to be in the eyes of the beholder. Some sources say they're heruntergekommen, some say they're gemütlich... But they're not big - that's one thing sources seem to agree on..
Peer comment(s):
agree Lancashireman : Something with 'corner', possibly 'corner bar', because that describes it in non-judgemental terms.
22 hrs
Exactly. Locals probably take them for granted and may not get excited about them but will miss them when they’re gone.
agree Edith Kelly
1 day 12 hrs
Something went wrong...
16 hrs

old-school bar

or
neighborhood bar
Smoking, wallpaper, floor carpet, old sofas, dark old 'grannie' furniture... with large floral prints...
http://derstandard.at/1379291779324/Wenn-der-Reini-im-Espres...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2017-03-10 09:38:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'a tribute to former times' see discussion

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2017-03-10 10:03:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2016/06/16/golden_days_bef...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2017-03-10 20:04:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.travelandleisure.com/slideshows/best-old-restaura...

https://de.foursquare.com/locationsite/list/berlins-best-old...

https://www.timeout.com/sydney/bars/the-best-old-school-pubs...

Something went wrong...
+2
1 day 17 hrs

watering hole

I looked at Ramey's 'hole in the wall' and thought close but not close enough, at least for a Brit expat. But it did at least inspire this late entry. 'Favourite watering holes' can be found all over the Commonwealth. They are though of with fondness rather than contempt ('dive').

London
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=watering ...

Sydney
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=watering ...

Toronto
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=watering ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 days (2017-03-20 14:22:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Peer comment(s):
agree oa_xxx (X)
4 hrs
agree Edith Kelly : I also have to agree here, it is a typical Irish expression, not sure about it in the UK.
1 day 20 hrs
Something went wrong...
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