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This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
French to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Law: Patents, Trademarks, Copyright / Trademark protection law (Switzerland)
French term or phrase:gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée
Les conditions de l’action de remise de gain pour une gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée sont au nombre de 5 à savoir :
1) une atteinte aux droits d’autrui, 2) son caractère intéressé, 3) la réalisation d’un gain, 4) un lien de causalité entre l’atteinte et le gain et 5) la mauvaise foi du gérant
This concerns a head of claim for remission of profits in a trademark infringement case.
My attempt: "misleading or self-serving business practices"
I cannot find a similar expression so this is more an attempt at translation than an equivalent English legal expression. Any better suggestion? Target language: European English
Yes it does, but in English terms we would only call this a "quasi-agency". In other words, the counterfeiter has no authorised position as agent, but has unlawfully arrogated that status to itself. Nor is it "managing" any business for the righful trademark proprietor. I considered all this and came to the conclusion that "gestion d'affaires" in my term seems to have the broader meaning of "conducting business" - referring to "agency" in an English translation (without an explanation of or reference to quas-agency) or even "management" would just sound confusing.
Further to post yesterday -- Swiss Civil Code etc.
13:54 Mar 21, 2021
"Agency" recurs in these texts and sources -- the same word every time.
FR "Art. 28 [...] 3. Sont réservées les actions en dommages-intérêts et en réparation du tort moral, ainsi que la remise du gain selon les dispositions sur la ***gestion d’affaires***.
EN "3. Claims for damages and satisfaction and for handing over profits in accordance with the provisions governing ***agency*** without authority are reserved."
FR "Art. 753 1. L’usufruitier qui a fait des impenses ou de nouveaux ouvrages sans y être obligé peut réclamer une indemnité à la cessation de l’usufruit, selon les règles de la ***gestion d’affaires***."
EN "1. If the usufructuary has of his or her own free will incurred costs or made improvements, on return of the object he or she may request compensation in accordance with the provisions governing ***agency*** without authority."
FHS Bridge: "gestion d'affaires" = agency
"Gestion d'affaires" -- very common term in French Civil Law.
Conclusions: 1) "Gestion d'affaires" is a very specific term with a very specific meaning. 2) That meaning, see EN version of the Swiss Civil Code (reminder: context = Switzerland) and Bridge, is agency.
Unfortunately the website in question is down at the moment, so I can't quote the (presumably) legally-binding term-for-term equivalence that I outlined in my answer. The principle being that if you have a 100%-reliable and authoritative source as regards wording, you should use it.
The same principle "sort of" (sorry!) applied when the Legifrance English translations were available.
But the English translation of the Swiss Civil Code appears to be legally binding, on a par with the Italian, German, etc. versions of it.
I believe that, legally, the one who has served on behalf of another without the other person's instruction or agreement may only claim for the expenses incurred in the action as a reimbursement. The question's issue of 'gestion d;affaires imparfaite ou intéréssée' could be any type of imperfect or flawed business management or organization, but it looks like Allegro prefers conduct or misconduct of business dealings or affairs instead of management in the setting. The question raises the issue of an infringement on another person's rights or entitlements, which might imply unlawful dealings connected with a power of attorney during another's absence, (une atteinte aux droits d'autrui et la réalisation d'un gain), in connection with profits or an award. In short, it looks like the criticisms are of someone's egotistic self interests, whilst on the contrary, the event of 'negotiorum gestio' implies altruism or a deed of kindness.
It's a very interesting discussion. I've learned that malfeasance is a willful and intentional action which causes harm to another, while misfeasance is generally an unintentional breach of contract. I believe that something which is self-serving is egotistic, focusing solely on self-interests, while altruism, which implies kindness, in contrast, is impossible in the same setting. There are references to 'negotiorum gestio', which is Latin for 'management of business'. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiorum_gestio) The setting involves a person (gestor) who commits himself or herself to doing a deed on behalf of another, in this case, more than an absent neighbour, it's a senior or dominant person (dominus negotii) or master (manager). The person, worker (gestor) who fulfills the deed on behalf of another does so without the other, dominant person's instruction or consent. The person (worker or gestor) has acted on the own initiative. The issue is that he or she is most likely going to look for money or something in return, and without prior consent or instruction from the dominant person or management, this can cause problems.
was "malfeasant or self-serving business practices" Malfeasant v misfeasant: In contrast to misfeasance, which is generally an unintentional breach of contract, malfeasance refers to a willful and intentional action that injures a party - certainly rhe case here https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/misfeasance.asp Self-serving: seems to be the best opposite to altruistic (part of my text says altruism is ruled out) Business practices: seems more descritive of what is going on than "business management" - fact is, it's criminal business practice Negotiorum gestio: decided not to us this Latin term, it doesn't appear in my text anyway
Lots of really helpful discussion so many thanks to everyone.
Yes, Swiss Federal Unfair Competiton Act and Swiss Federal Protection of Trademarks Act and most definitely this is about trademark infringement and passing-off. My take on "gestion d'affaires" isn't "management of business" but more like "conduct of business" - i.e. conducting (unlawfully) another person's business
I have trouble seeing how the law on "gestion d'affaires d'autrui" (g d'aff d'au) could relate to trademark infringement. The examples of g. d'aff d'au. are things like stepping in to take care of your neighbor's house when they're not around or are too old to do it... if you do that, you've got to do it in their best interest rather than your own.
AllegroTrans, to narrow this down, does the text you're translating cite to any particular code sections?
"Loi fédérale complétant le Code civil suisse Deuxième partie Des diverses espèces de contrats Titre quatorzième De la gestion d’affaires"
WE HAVE THE STANDARD SCENARIO:
"Art. 419 A. Droits et obligations du gérant I. Exécution de l’affaire Celui qui, sans mandat, gère l’affaire d’autrui, est tenu de la gérer conformément aux intérêts et aux intentions présumables du maître."
AND THEN THE "GOES ROGUE" SCENARIO:
"Art. 423 II. Affaire entreprise dans l’intérêt du gérant 1 Lorsque la gestion n’a pas été entreprise dans l’intérêt du maître, celui-ci n’en a pas moins le droit de s’approprier les profits qui en résultent."
Is the Swiss Civil Code authoritative enough a source for you?
the concept of "negotiorum gestio" is a basic concept that exists in ALL countries applying "Continental law" (check for yourself the list), whatever are the local translations used and it's EXACTLY the same concept in all of this countries.
If you think you can learn the logic of the continental law from English dictionaries, you are an optimist ...
you have "established" nothing - what you have in effect "established" when applied to this text would be the equivalent of "a burglar acting to protect the interests of the owner of the house" - certainly must makes perfect sense if dictionaries lead you that way?
as for "The Merriam Webster entry for negotiorum gestio (and other sources, if I recall correctly) does not mention benevolence" - for those who learned about that concept from some slightly more reliable / authoritative sources they don't need The Merriam Webster to tell them that.
1. d’interdire une atteinte illicite, si elle est imminente; 2. de la faire cesser, si elle dure encore; 3. d’en constater le caractère illicite, si le trouble qu’elle a créé subsiste. 2 Il peut en particulier demander qu’une rectification ou que le jugement soit communiqué à des tiers ou publié.
3 Sont réservées les actions en dommages-intérêts et en réparation du tort moral, ainsi que la remise du gain selon les dispositions sur la ***gestion d’affaires***."
I have established that gestion d'affaires translates to negotiorum gestio.
Daryo's argument amounts to saying that if a charity does something bad, you have to stop calling it a charity.
Negotiorum gestio ([ni-ˌgō-shē-ˈȯr-əm-ˈjes-chē-ō], Latin for "management of business") is a form of spontaneous voluntary agency in which an intervenor or intermeddler, the gestor, acts on behalf and for the benefit of a principal (dominus negotii), but without the latter's prior consent. The gestor is only entitled to reimbursement for expenses and not to remuneration, the underlying principle being that negotiorum gestio is intended as an act of generosity and friendship and not to allow the gestor to profit from his intermeddling. This form of intervention is classified as a quasi-contract and found in civil-law jurisdictions and in mixed systems (e.g. Louisiana, Scots, South African, and Philippine laws).
Abusing / misappropriating s.o. else's trademark might well be seen as a kind of "managing the business of a third party without its knowledge or prior consent" but it's nowhere near the concept of "Negotiorum gestio"
"negotiorum gestio" is about as much applicable in this ST it would be to a a burglar "managing" your house in your absence!!
Despite some similarities, there is not a trace of "negotiorum gestio" in this ST.
La gestion d'affaires (ou negotiorum gestio) est le premier des trois quasi-contrats régis par le Code civil français, le second étant le paiement de l'indu et le troisième, consacré par la réforme du droit des contrats de 2016, est l'enrichissement sans cause. Le quasi-contrat est un fait juridique, plus précisément un fait purement volontaire, selon l'expression légale1.
En l'espèce, ce fait qui va entraîner la création d'obligations, est celui de s'immiscer spontanément et opportunément dans les affaires d'une autre personne, dans une vue désintéressée, pour lui rendre service.
The key ingredient is missing in this case "dans une vue désintéressée, pour lui rendre service" - hardly applicable to someone abusing s.o. else's intellectual property?
"Misleading" and "mishandling" go beyond "imparfait". The latter is neutral, without any suggestion of intention. The first two lean a teensy weensy bit towards the possibility that just maybe... the "imperfect" management was in fact intentional. It may have been but that cannot be read into the term "imparfait". IMHO, "mismanagement" meets that register in English.
"illegitimate negotiorum gestio" but it only seems to be an explanatory construct. I don't really like the idea of using a Latin term where one doesn't appear in the source text. I'm now beginning to think that "gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée" isn't a legal term as such, more an explanation. So maybe I have licence to make up an explanatory term in English? I'm edging toward "self-serving unauthorised arrogation of agency" or something similar. Keep up the discussion guys...
"Negotiorum gestio" looks potentially a propos, but the term is not used anywhere in my text. On looking up English and US commentaries on this, the idea seems to be that the term is used where altruism is intended (e.g. someone is away on holiday when the roof of their house is blown in; a kindly neighbour, with no ostensible authority, breaks into the house and makes temporary repairs), rather than dishonesty. If I'm right in thinking that's always the case, then the Latin term backfires here.
Also, in several Eurpopean languages the eqivalent term translates to "agency of necessity" which can't possibly be the case with deliberate trademark infringement.
Rather than "misleading", howzabout "mishandling"?
15:11 Mar 12, 2021
The term "mishandling" comes to mind for this one. Not quite sure how to phrase it though.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
1 hr confidence:
disloyal management or self-dealing
Explanation: Imparfaite = disloyal: "La gestion d'affaires est qualifiée d'imparfaite lorsqu'elle est entreprise non dans l'intérêt du maître, mais dans celui du gérant ou d'un tiers."
Eliza Hall United States Local time: 16:24 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks! FHS Bridhe has "dishonest management" for "gestion deloyale"; " intéressée" in the term agrees with "gestion", however I see you have changed the construction somewhat
Asker: All the definitions and explanations of "self-dealing" that I can find refer to trustees, fiduciaries and other persons holding a position of trust. In my case though this is about usurpation of trademarks and passing-off (no relationship between the parties involved) so I'm not sure that your term works.
Asker: I think this implies much more tham mere "disloyalty" - we are talking of outright tratrademark infringement - note the Fr. word "déloyale" has several "shades" of meaning, ranging from unfair to wanton
Explanation: Managers are agents reporting to their principal about whether or not the business they are managing reaches the targets set by their principal.
In my translation, off-track means that the agent's business is not on target. On the contrary, the agent is pursuing a target of his/her own: his/her management is self-serving.
Francois Boye United States Local time: 16:24 Native speaker of: French PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks but "off track" doesn't sound like a legal expression and my text has nothing remotely to do with targets
Explanation: If this is about claiming an account - rather than a remission - of profits, then we could be into mismanagement and misappropriation c.f defalcations in US fed. law
Note on a related theme: Geschäftsführung ohne Auftrag > 'conduct of business without a mandate' is an 'agency of necessity'.
Otherwise, self-dealing in E+W law - such as renewing a client's market trading lease in the lawyer's own name - is not the same as self-interest.
Obiter, quasi-contracts suggest we are moving into the realm of Anglo-Am. tort and contract now called 'the law of restitution'.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 heures (2021-03-12 20:31:40 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I repeated the mis- after misfeasant only for stylistic balance and tie-up with the management.
Mindful of misfeasance proceedings in E+W tort, *Equity* and crime by a company liquidator against the ex-officers and directors, I had actually been inclined to patch together mis-, mal- and non-feasance with something like *misfeasance and unduly self-serving malfeasance* cf. undue influence + undue preference in bankruptcy.
'Trustee *malfeasance* refers to any type of negligent, *self-serving*, erroneous, or retaliatory conduct committed by the trustee of a trust resulting in harm to trust assets or beneficiaries.' https://rmolawyers.com/trustee-malfeasance-guide/
Funnily enough, this is a US-Am weblink > beware of mal- vs. misfeasance differences Transatlantically, albeit slight ones in 'corporate practis/se' < but I am sure all categories of 'feasance' > Norman FR ce faisant would be understood in 'offshore Euro-English' by accountants, insolvency practitioners, lawyers and company court judges who, except in Scotland with its Roman civil law, would be baffled by the Latin expression of negotiorum gestio
he Latin expr
Example sentence(s):
Account to be taken from misfeasant directors (Re Shahi Tandoori Restaurant)
The self-serving management hypothesis : Some evidence.
Explanation: I read the above information and understood the following: 'Conditions of action on the delivery of profits or earnings for an ineffective or unprofessional business management due to inappropriate practice are implied or suggested. It implies that there's been an infringement on other people's entitlements concerning a type of profit gain, along with a casual connection between the infringement and the profit due to a manager's misconduct or unethical practice.'
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 11 hrs (2021-03-14 01:17:02 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 11 hrs (2021-03-14 01:24:49 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
"A legal definition of context is the language that precedes and follows a series of words, such as a particular sentence or clause. The context of a legal document is often scrutinized to shed light upon the intent of an ambiguous or obscure sentence or clause so that it may be interpreted as its drafter intended. (West Encyclopedia of American Law)." https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/context
Example sentence(s):
(De l'information explique le suivant: 'Des conditions d'action et la livraison des profits ou des bénéfices pour une gestion d'affaires inefficace qui manque de professionalisme à cause des pratiques impropres ou de la mauvaise conduite sont insinuée
'Il est sous-entendu qu'il y a une atteinte sur des droits des autres en ce qui concerne des profits réalisés, ensemble avec un lien informel entre l'atteinte et les bénéfices en raison de la conduite douteuse d'une gestion d'affaires.'
Lisa Rosengard United Kingdom Local time: 21:24 Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Lisa, but this isn't a simple dictionary job, it's in a specific legal context
Explanation: or disloyal (/ self-serving?) unauthorised management
gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée
means in fact:
gestion d’affaires d'autrui imparfaite ou intéressée
to avoid repeating all references already quoted, I would just summarise the elements of
"gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée"
which are:
1 - someone getting involved in some third person's business
2 - without any consent nor knowledge of that third person
3 - with a complete disregard for that third person's interests
Given the third element of the description of what's happening in this ST, the concept of "negotiorum gestio" has NOTHING to do with this ST, has no place whatsoever in any translation nor explanation.
Should be kept away with a veeery long barge pole!
Two situations similar in some aspects, but only one would have anything to do with the concept of "negotiorum gestio":
-- Your neighbour's house is empty;
-- You break into your neighbour's house;
(A) - to prevent a burst pipe or a water valve left open flooding the whole house;
(B) - to open valves and flood your neighbour's house.
(A) would be a case of "negotiorum gestio", and would entitle you in Continental law to claim from your neighbour whatever you paid to a locksmith to break open the door and a plumber to fix the leak.
(B) - wouldn't "entitle you" to anything but a lot of troubles. NOTHING to do with "negotiorum gestio" in any shape or form.
Now take a look at the ST ...
Daryo United Kingdom Local time: 21:24 Native speaker of: Serbian, French PRO pts in category: 31
