Femelles Grands Parentales / Mâles Grands Parentaux

English translation: granddams / grandsires

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:Femelles Grands Parentales / Mâles Grands Parentaux
English translation:granddams / grandsires
Entered by: Charles Davis

14:42 Oct 11, 2016
French to English translations [PRO]
Livestock / Animal Husbandry / rabbits
French term or phrase: Femelles Grands Parentales / Mâles Grands Parentaux
Part of a list in a text about breeding rabbits is as follows:

Femelles Grands Parentales
Femelles Parentales
Mâles Parentaux et Grands Parentaux

Anyone able to explain how the "grand(s)" should be understood/translated here?

Any suggestions very much appreciated.
Philip Taylor
Local time: 13:41
granddams / grandsires
Explanation:
Note that it says "femelles grands parentales", not "grandes parentales". This reflects the fact that "grand" doesn't mean big here. This is talking about grandparents. Of course, since rabbits breed like... well, rabbits, they can become grandparents in very short order.

I first twigged to this through this page, which advertises:

"Femelle grand-parentale, Mâle grand parental"
http://www.granjajordan.com/fr.html

And in the English version:

"Maternal grandmother rabbit, Grandfather"
http://www.granjajordan.com/en.html

Anyway, I'm sure this is the meaning. See here, on p. 139, where you'll see a diagram of rabbit generations, with the generations going down from "Arrière-grands-parentaux (AGP)" to "Grands-parentaux (GP)" to "Parentaux (P)".
http://www.fao.org/docrep/014/t1690f/t1690f.pdf

In English a rabbit grandfather is called a grandsire, and a grandmother is called a granddam. "Male" and "female" are redundant, since the English terms are gendered.

"Sire: Father of a rabbit (Grandsire, Great-Grandsire, etc).
Dam: Mother of a rabbit (Granddam, Great-Granddam, etc)."
http://www.edelweissranch.com/rabbit-lingo-demystified.html

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Note added at 2 hrs (2016-10-11 16:50:14 GMT)
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(Grand)dam and (grand)sire, by the way, are not just used in showing. They are standard in commercial rabbit production for meat:

https://books.google.es/books?id=ZY-8F9MwBWsC&pg=PA198&lpg=P...

"Commercial livestock producers often use sire and dam (father & mother) breeds of recognized merit to produce crossbred offspring for market. The crossbreeds give more efficient performance and greater profits. In Europe, the sophisticated use of commercial sire and dam breeds to produce crossbred fryer rabbits (young meat animals) is widely practiced."
http://www.justrabbits.com/altex-rabbit.html#gs.D2r7JkA

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Note added at 2 hrs (2016-10-11 16:54:01 GMT)
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By the way, French breed names tend to use "géant" rather than "grand" for "large". But that's irrelevant anyway; there is absolutely nothing to connect these French terms to breeds or genetics.
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 14:41
Grading comment
I'm still not 100% certain, but am leaning in this direction for now. Thanks for your excellent efforts. And thanks to everyone else who answered or commented. All contributions very much appreciated as always.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1granddams / grandsires
Charles Davis
5Females GPD (grand parental doe) /Males GPC (grand parental coney)
pascie
4 -1Large Doe Parent / Large Buck Parent
pascie


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
granddams / grandsires


Explanation:
Note that it says "femelles grands parentales", not "grandes parentales". This reflects the fact that "grand" doesn't mean big here. This is talking about grandparents. Of course, since rabbits breed like... well, rabbits, they can become grandparents in very short order.

I first twigged to this through this page, which advertises:

"Femelle grand-parentale, Mâle grand parental"
http://www.granjajordan.com/fr.html

And in the English version:

"Maternal grandmother rabbit, Grandfather"
http://www.granjajordan.com/en.html

Anyway, I'm sure this is the meaning. See here, on p. 139, where you'll see a diagram of rabbit generations, with the generations going down from "Arrière-grands-parentaux (AGP)" to "Grands-parentaux (GP)" to "Parentaux (P)".
http://www.fao.org/docrep/014/t1690f/t1690f.pdf

In English a rabbit grandfather is called a grandsire, and a grandmother is called a granddam. "Male" and "female" are redundant, since the English terms are gendered.

"Sire: Father of a rabbit (Grandsire, Great-Grandsire, etc).
Dam: Mother of a rabbit (Granddam, Great-Granddam, etc)."
http://www.edelweissranch.com/rabbit-lingo-demystified.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2016-10-11 16:50:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(Grand)dam and (grand)sire, by the way, are not just used in showing. They are standard in commercial rabbit production for meat:

https://books.google.es/books?id=ZY-8F9MwBWsC&pg=PA198&lpg=P...

"Commercial livestock producers often use sire and dam (father & mother) breeds of recognized merit to produce crossbred offspring for market. The crossbreeds give more efficient performance and greater profits. In Europe, the sophisticated use of commercial sire and dam breeds to produce crossbred fryer rabbits (young meat animals) is widely practiced."
http://www.justrabbits.com/altex-rabbit.html#gs.D2r7JkA

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2016-10-11 16:54:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

By the way, French breed names tend to use "géant" rather than "grand" for "large". But that's irrelevant anyway; there is absolutely nothing to connect these French terms to breeds or genetics.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 14:41
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I'm still not 100% certain, but am leaning in this direction for now. Thanks for your excellent efforts. And thanks to everyone else who answered or commented. All contributions very much appreciated as always.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch: !
8 mins
  -> Thanks, Barbara :) I do like the English terms here.

disagree  pascie: The link shows that they are Large White (genetics term)
18 mins
  -> I am 100% sure you are wrong about that. I see no link to the French term, so your suggestion has no documentary support. And how do you explain "femelles grands parentales"?

agree  philgoddard: I don't know which link pascie is talking about, but the confusion is the result of the hyphens being omitted in the French,
22 mins
  -> Thanks, Phil. It would be helpful if they were there, but it seems they often aren't.
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Large Doe Parent / Large Buck Parent


Explanation:
"Grand" here refers to genetic response in crossbreeding aimed to develop new breeds of small or large livestock.
This will allow breeders of these "engineered" breeds to present them in livestock fair and compete for the rabbit parent showmanship.
This crossbreeding technique allows to produce stronger and safe new rabbit variety.

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Note added at 33 mins (2016-10-11 15:16:11 GMT)
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A giant breed is also produced with the Flemish Giant rabbit variety. (15 to 22 pounds)!!!

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Note added at 1 hr (2016-10-11 16:18:08 GMT)
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The link posted by Charles Davis shows the Large White which is a genetic reference.
I agree with terms 'dam' and 'sire' only if the purpose of this breeding is for showmanship.
If the purpose of that particular breeding is for fur then it relates to angora. In that case, you are dealing with Large White doe parent and Large white buck parent. Maybe there is some clues in the original text.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:18:09 GMT)
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Femelle parentale = crossbred rabbit doe (between 2 selected lines) mother of the rabbits produced for
slaughter



    https://world-rabbit-science.com/WRSA-Proceedings/Congress-2008-Verona/Papers/G-GuZilin.pdf
    Reference: http://www.sacfair.com/pdf/2013/04-02/2013_Livestock_Horse_a...
pascie
Local time: 08:41

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  philgoddard: If "grand" meant large, it would be "femelles grandes".
1 hr
  -> We are in the genetics context. Formulation may be quite differente
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Females GPD (grand parental doe) /Males GPC (grand parental coney)


Explanation:
Upon further digging, here is what seems to be used by rabbit breeders. And knowing the context was in France.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 20:47:37 GMT)
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http://www.cuniculture.info/Docs/Magazine/Magazine2007/mag34...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:14:55 GMT)
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Femelle parentale = crossbred rabbit doe (between 2
selected line) mother of the rabbits produced for
slaughter.


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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:22:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Correction: crossbred parental female or doe


    Reference: http://www.eurolap.fr/en/accueil.html
    Reference: http://www.eurolap.fr/fr/accueil.html
pascie
Local time: 08:41

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Charles Davis: Hi again. Can you find any examples of these expressions in sources written in English and not translated from French? I can't. In fact I can't even find them in your link. // French authors and no use of proposed term(s)
30 mins
  -> http://animres.edpsciences.org/articles/animres/pdf/2002/05/...

neutral  philgoddard: I can't find them either, and the translation of the home page is awful, which doesn't bode well for the rest of the site.
3 hrs
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