| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Kudoz abuse Thread poster: Timothy Barton
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I woke up this morning to find 7 questions asked in the space of 9 minutes in a single field and a single language pair. As I suspected, they were all posted by the same person. Some of the questions could be answered pretty easily without a dictionary by anybody with reasonable competence in the two languages. For the other questions, a simple search online would have sufficed.
I expected the questions to be from somebody who is not a professional translator and suddenly ended up t... See more I woke up this morning to find 7 questions asked in the space of 9 minutes in a single field and a single language pair. As I suspected, they were all posted by the same person. Some of the questions could be answered pretty easily without a dictionary by anybody with reasonable competence in the two languages. For the other questions, a simple search online would have sufficed.
I expected the questions to be from somebody who is not a professional translator and suddenly ended up translating a text. But no. It was somebody who has been a translator for more than 10 years. A look at her profile showed that she had two target languages and five source languages. I assumed we had a case of somebody who was trying to do too many languages and was working on a language she was less competent in.
But then I looked at all her Kudoz questions. Since December 9 she has asked more than 100 questions, many unnecessarily.
I will not personally name and shame her (though I suspect many will know who I'm talking about). But shouldn't some kind of system be put in place to warn and eventually block such abusers of the Kudoz system. I don't know what the best system is, but something needs to be done. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Russell Jones 
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:25
Italian to English
| | The system already exists | Dec 27, 2011 |
But shouldn't some kind of system be put in place to warn and eventually block such abusers of the Kudoz system. I don't know what the best system is, but something needs to be done.
You can just configure your Proz so that you won't see any questions asked by this person. That is the easiest way. Just block her to keep your timeline clean. Forget about any other idea about what needs to be done. Proz is not in a position to judge if a question is "unnecessary" and therefore they can't react.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 14:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Kudoz abuse is an outgrowth of the site's radical openness | Dec 27, 2011 |
The frequently discussed abuse of the Kudoz system (and I for one would contend that the behavior described by Timothy is indeed abusive) is simply a by-product of the site's fundamental decision to welcome all comers as users and paid members. This results in significant site participation by persons whom no one could rightly classify as professional translators, but who are instead rank beginners, wannabes, incompetents, non-translators, and even downright frauds).
There are, of c... See more The frequently discussed abuse of the Kudoz system (and I for one would contend that the behavior described by Timothy is indeed abusive) is simply a by-product of the site's fundamental decision to welcome all comers as users and paid members. This results in significant site participation by persons whom no one could rightly classify as professional translators, but who are instead rank beginners, wannabes, incompetents, non-translators, and even downright frauds).
There are, of course, pros and cons to such openness. But calls for radical reform of the Kudoz system are essentially a demand that proz.com modify its very DNA, and are therefore a waste of time.
This is why the best the site can really do is allow users the option of hiding contributions (i.e., at least the Kudoz questions) of designated individuals, thus creating a kind of customized experience that decreases aggravation at the expense of being able to see what is really going on.
[Edited at 2011-12-27 19:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Rob Grayson
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:25
French to English
| Words and figures do not agree… | Dec 27, 2011 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
[…] calls for radical reform of the Kudoz system are essentially a demand that proz.com modify its very DNA, and are therefore a waste of time.
Robert is right that calls for radical reform are a waste of time. However, the issue that most aggrieves me is the blatant mismatch between the site's purported aim of promoting translation as a serious profession worthy of respect and its practices, which in fact achieve the opposite of this aim by not only tolerating "persons whom no one could rightly classify as professional translators but who are instead rank beginners, wannabes, incompetents, non-translators, and even downright frauds" but, indeed, encouraging them.
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 12:25
Dutch to English
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| Happens all the time | Dec 27, 2011 |
It happens all the time and people have complained about it before. Apparently it is not against the Kudoz rules as long as there are no more than 10 questions at any one time. Quality of the Kudoz forum is not an issue. I think that moderators could play a more pro-active role in this but my guess is that their hands are tied by rules as well.
Translators with that many source and target languages are overextending themselves and often rely on the goodwill of others to help them ou... See more It happens all the time and people have complained about it before. Apparently it is not against the Kudoz rules as long as there are no more than 10 questions at any one time. Quality of the Kudoz forum is not an issue. I think that moderators could play a more pro-active role in this but my guess is that their hands are tied by rules as well.
Translators with that many source and target languages are overextending themselves and often rely on the goodwill of others to help them out by asking multiple questions that could easily, or with a little bit of research, be found on the internet. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 12:25
English to Spanish
+ ...
In memoriam | Lack of Professionalism | Dec 27, 2011 |
The lack of professionalism to be found on this site is dismaying. Though at different times I have pronounced myself to be in favor of inclusiveness, the fact is that there is much chaff among the wheat. That includes both crooked, scam and bottom-feeding "agencies" as well as a multitude of persons billing themselves as "translators" whose knowledge is very marginal and who ruin the reputation of our profession. In such an atomosphere a client would be well advised to be very careful.
... See more The lack of professionalism to be found on this site is dismaying. Though at different times I have pronounced myself to be in favor of inclusiveness, the fact is that there is much chaff among the wheat. That includes both crooked, scam and bottom-feeding "agencies" as well as a multitude of persons billing themselves as "translators" whose knowledge is very marginal and who ruin the reputation of our profession. In such an atomosphere a client would be well advised to be very careful.
I don't know what the solution is. Certainly professionalism cannot be determined by who pays a membership fee and who does not, nor can Proz or anyone else undertake to prove the professionalism or capability of any agency, client or translator.
At least the positive thing is that there are also some consummate professionals here and others whose knowledge may be as yet incomplete who aspire to become top professionals. So this being the Internet, there is no guarantee. We just have to learn to discern. ▲ Collapse
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Henry Hinds wrote:
The lack of professionalism to be found on this site is dismaying. Though at different times I have pronounced myself to be in favor of inclusiveness, the fact is that there is much chaff among the wheat. That includes both crooked, scam and bottom-feeding "agencies" as well as a multitude of persons billing themselves as "translators" whose knowledge is very marginal and who ruin the reputation of our profession. In such an atomosphere a client would be well advised to be very careful.
I don't know what the solution is. Certainly professionalism cannot be determined by who pays a membership fee and who does not, nor can Proz or anyone else undertake to prove the professionalism or capability of any agency, client or translator.
At least the positive thing is that there are also some consummate professionals here and others whose knowledge may be as yet incomplete who aspire to become top professionals. So this being the Internet, there is no guarantee. We just have to learn to discern.
Unfortunately, this is not a site for *professional* translators as it claims to be. I'm afraid we shall have to live with all those - many - that are not and should honestly not even be called translators. After a period of enthusiasm, many years ago, I have resigned.
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Kathy Leiva
United States
Local time: 13:25
English to Spanish
| Putting Together The Pieces | Dec 28, 2011 |
I'm a ProZ newbie presently transitioning into a career in translating and interpreting, motivated in part by years of fixing botched translations outsourced by my former employer to agencies I would never have hired.
What I've observed in the few weeks since becoming a member is that complete texts are submitted in piece-meal fashion as questions which can then be reassembled into a completely translated whole. In this short time I have also spotted a few repeat offenders to whom I... See more I'm a ProZ newbie presently transitioning into a career in translating and interpreting, motivated in part by years of fixing botched translations outsourced by my former employer to agencies I would never have hired.
What I've observed in the few weeks since becoming a member is that complete texts are submitted in piece-meal fashion as questions which can then be reassembled into a completely translated whole. In this short time I have also spotted a few repeat offenders to whom I will provide no further assistance. Glad to hear there is a way to filter them and will search the site for instructions on how to do so.
Best wishes to all for the coming New Year! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paul Stevens
Local time: 19:25
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Nothing will be done, sadly... | Dec 28, 2011 |
Timothy, FYI, this person seems to be a serial "abuser" of the KudoZ system. I started this particular thread regarding her a few months ago:
http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/204646-i_must_be_missing_something.html
She also doesn't have the confidence/courage/(choose your own word) to display her KudoZ activity in her profile, but, once agai... See more Timothy, FYI, this person seems to be a serial "abuser" of the KudoZ system. I started this particular thread regarding her a few months ago:
http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/204646-i_must_be_missing_something.html
She also doesn't have the confidence/courage/(choose your own word) to display her KudoZ activity in her profile, but, once again, the site rules happily allow that as well.....
[Edited at 2011-12-28 08:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Charlesp
Sweden
Local time: 20:25
English
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| I agree, but Rather than complain .. | Dec 28, 2011 |
A suggestion: Rather than complain (here), why not write a note to the poster/Asker and explain the situation and your issues with this practice that you find disruptive to the site. A polite note, of course.
I have assisted many new users in this manner, as they were unfamilar with the process and rules, and had no real intention at all to be causing the slighest of problem, but simply were unfamilar with the process and rules. Some have turned out over time to be real contrib... See more A suggestion: Rather than complain (here), why not write a note to the poster/Asker and explain the situation and your issues with this practice that you find disruptive to the site. A polite note, of course.
I have assisted many new users in this manner, as they were unfamilar with the process and rules, and had no real intention at all to be causing the slighest of problem, but simply were unfamilar with the process and rules. Some have turned out over time to be real contributors to the Kudoz efforts. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paul Stevens
Local time: 19:25
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Not a new user | Dec 28, 2011 |
Charlesp wrote:
A suggestion: Rather than complain (here), why not write a note to the poster/Asker and explain the situation and your issues with this practice that you find disruptive to the site. A polite note, of course.
I have assisted many new users in this manner, as they were unfamilar with the process and rules, and had no real intention at all to be causing the slighest of problem, but simply were unfamilar with the process and rules. Some have turned out over time to be real contributors to the Kudoz efforts.
Charlesp, this particular person has been posting KudoZ questions since November 2005 and has posted more than 3,000 in all, so, whilst your suggestion is a good one for new users, I don't think that it is applicable to this person who is a ProZ member, a "ProZ Certified Pro" and a "ProZ.com Professional Trainer".
[Edited at 2011-12-28 09:07 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-12-28 09:08 GMT]
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JaneD
Sweden
Local time: 20:25
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
+ ...
| Filter and forget | Dec 28, 2011 |
I was so curious to find out who this was that I did a Kudoz search, removing the personal filter option because, as I suspected, I had already filtered this particular "professional".
Now I can see who it is, and the kind of questions she asks, that explains why I have her in my filter list!
In case you haven't used the filter feature before, once someone is added, you don't receive notifications of their inane queries, nor do you even see their questions in the Kudoz ... See more I was so curious to find out who this was that I did a Kudoz search, removing the personal filter option because, as I suspected, I had already filtered this particular "professional".
Now I can see who it is, and the kind of questions she asks, that explains why I have her in my filter list!
In case you haven't used the filter feature before, once someone is added, you don't receive notifications of their inane queries, nor do you even see their questions in the Kudoz list on the main page. Wonderful. You can simply delete them from your existence.
If only it was always that simple. ▲ Collapse
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Don't answer regular questions from the same person. Both male and female are a nuisance.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 20:25
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Define "abuse" first | Dec 28, 2011 |
Timothy Barton wrote:
I woke up this morning to find 7 questions asked in the space of 9 minutes in a single field and a single language pair. As I suspected, they were all posted by the same person.
In other words, the person is a paying member of ProZ.com, and he/she can ask another 8 questions before his/her daily limit of questions is reached. Do you believe that 15 questions per person per day is too many? What would you regard as a reasonable limit?
Some of the questions could be answered pretty easily without a dictionary by anybody with reasonable competence in the two languages.
By ProZ.com's KudoZ FAQ's definition, those are considered "non-Pro" questions. There is a little button on the KudoZ answering page called "Vote non-Pro". Click the button.
For the other questions, a simple search online would have sufficed.
Not everyone are skilled googlers, and some people prefer a human's opinion.
I expected the questions to be from somebody who is not a professional translator and suddenly ended up translating a text. But no. It was somebody who has been a translator for more than 10 years.
There are people who are so afraid of the type of comments you're making that they will restrain themselves from asking any but the most difficult questions on KudoZ. Others see KudoZ as a useful resource that should be exploited to its legal limits, without fear of recrimination.
But shouldn't some kind of system be put in place to warn and eventually block such abusers of the Kudoz system.
You mean, something that will make KudoZ users think to themselves "I had better not ask stupid questions, otherwise I might get booted off the system"...?
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