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feuillet de propriété par étages 1234-56

English translation: property record 1234-56 for property co-owned as propriété par étages

13:03 Sep 24, 2019
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Real Estate / Swiss Real Estate
French term or phrase: feuillet de propriété par étages 1234-56
I'm just a little unsure about the wording here, the full context is:

Conformémen à la clause X de l’acte précité, les soussignés certifient que le prix
de vente du feuillet de propriété par étages 1234-56 de [Location] est entièrement réglé à ce jour.

In accordance with clause X of the aforementioned deed, the undersigned parties attest that the sales price of the property sheet?? for commonhold 1234-56 in [Location] has already been paid in its entirety.

Should I just omit the "sheet" bit? I presume it's referring to the property itself.
Vivien Green
United Kingdom
English translation:property record 1234-56 for property co-owned as propriété par étages
Explanation:
The reference to the feuillet means that they're talking about the sale price set forth on the feuillet (property record). IOW, the undersigned parties certify that the sale price set forth on property record 1234-56, for property held in PPE co-ownership, has been paid in full.

I agree with Daryo that you should think twice before translating PPE with a similar but not identical EN term. Commonhold and condominium are decent equivalents if the client just wants a general idea. If the legal details matter, then rephrase in such a way as to keep the FR term: "property co-owned as propriété par étages." The term co-owned gives the client the sense of what this means, and the FR term lets them look up specifics if they want.

So in your shoes I would suggest two translations: the one I've put above (more legally precise) and the alternative "property record 1234-56 for condominium property" (or "commonhold property" if the translation is to UK English). If you're using translation software you have to pick one and then explain the two options to the client in an email. If you're translating directly in Word you can pick one and then put the other, plus explanation, in a comment.

References:

In Switzerland, le registre foncier "assure, par l'inscription dans des registres officiels, la conservation et la publicité des droits privés portant sur les immeubles." The documents held there include "le grand livre (ensemble des feuillets des immeubles)," and the property registration system is "ordonné par immeubles (système des feuillets réels, ce qui signifie que pour chaque immeuble un feuillet est ouvert au registre foncier)."
https://www.fr.ch/rf/territoire-amenagement-et-constructions...

Propriété par étages: https://www.cardis.ch/fr/conseils/propriete-par-etage-ppe
Selected response from:

Eliza Hall
United States
Local time: 12:30
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5property record 1234-56 for property co-owned as propriété par étages
Eliza Hall
3 -1the sale price of the property registered under the lot ...
Daryo
3 -2(UK) commonhold title section (US: condominium) page 1234-56
Adrian MM.


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
le prix de vente du feuillet de propriété par étages
the sale price of the property registered under the lot ...


Explanation:
if you take out "feuillet" and keep the reference numbers (as you must), the reference numbers will be floating in thin air.

CL3 only because "feuillet de propriété par étages" might need a translation more specific than just "(Land Registry) lot"


https://www.fonder-construire-habiter.ch/diriger-une-coopera...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2019-09-24 13:35:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"... Du point de vue légal, chaque unité de propriété par étage (donc en règle générale, chaque logement) constitue un bien immobilier avec son propre feuillet d’immatriculation au registre foncier. ..."

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:30
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 74

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Eliza Hall: It's referring to the sale price shown on the property record, and I suspect that's a page number (in the grand livre) or a record number, not a lot number. In any case, it's referring to the register itself and can be translated as such.
15 mins
  -> the reference is to the actual entry for the "lot/parcel" - must be // you are right about the price "as mentioned in the land registry entry for this property" - I missed that bit.
disagree  GILLES MEUNIER: route ?
9 days
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41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
property record 1234-56 for property co-owned as propriété par étages


Explanation:
The reference to the feuillet means that they're talking about the sale price set forth on the feuillet (property record). IOW, the undersigned parties certify that the sale price set forth on property record 1234-56, for property held in PPE co-ownership, has been paid in full.

I agree with Daryo that you should think twice before translating PPE with a similar but not identical EN term. Commonhold and condominium are decent equivalents if the client just wants a general idea. If the legal details matter, then rephrase in such a way as to keep the FR term: "property co-owned as propriété par étages." The term co-owned gives the client the sense of what this means, and the FR term lets them look up specifics if they want.

So in your shoes I would suggest two translations: the one I've put above (more legally precise) and the alternative "property record 1234-56 for condominium property" (or "commonhold property" if the translation is to UK English). If you're using translation software you have to pick one and then explain the two options to the client in an email. If you're translating directly in Word you can pick one and then put the other, plus explanation, in a comment.

References:

In Switzerland, le registre foncier "assure, par l'inscription dans des registres officiels, la conservation et la publicité des droits privés portant sur les immeubles." The documents held there include "le grand livre (ensemble des feuillets des immeubles)," and the property registration system is "ordonné par immeubles (système des feuillets réels, ce qui signifie que pour chaque immeuble un feuillet est ouvert au registre foncier)."
https://www.fr.ch/rf/territoire-amenagement-et-constructions...

Propriété par étages: https://www.cardis.ch/fr/conseils/propriete-par-etage-ppe

Eliza Hall
United States
Local time: 12:30
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 40
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch: The only slight quibble is that what has been sold is the property, not the property record. So, perhaps, "the property registered in record/sheet No. 1234-56 ... "?
19 mins
  -> I think it's just the sale price shown on/set forth at property record XYZ.
agree  AllegroTrans: "the co-ownership property registered in record/sheet No. 1234-56 ... "
59 mins
  -> Merci.
agree  Yolanda Broad
1 hr
  -> Merci.
agree  Daryo
3 hrs
  -> Merci.
agree  EirTranslations
3 hrs
  -> Merci.
disagree  Adrian MM.: propriété par étages - and its Swiss-German equivalent of Stockwerkeigentum that you don't mention - would be lost on lay & *legal* clients with no knowledge of French or German.//UK clients like estate agents (realtors) certainly do understand commonhold
5 hrs
  -> Of course it wouldn't. Lay clients also wouldn't understand the full legal implications of "commonhold." The point is not to mislead them into thinking it's held in commonhold, when it's actually not quite that.
agree  Michael Confais (X)
19 hrs
  -> Merci.
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
(CH) feuillet de propriété par étages 1234-56
(UK) commonhold title section (US: condominium) page 1234-56


Explanation:
propriété par étages = DE: Stockwerkeigentum > (AmE) condo (BrE) commonhold cf. flying freehold (Canada, Oz and NZ) strata title (ESP) horizontal property.

Feuillet could be the title page: in the UK, the land cert. is split into the page sections of 1. proprietorship > title 2. property > extent of land 3. charges > any mortgages.

Example sentence(s):
  • Part 1 of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 came into force on 27 September 2004 (with the exception of section 21(4) and (5)). It creates a new way of owning freehold properties which have communal facilities.

    Reference: http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/real-estate/4308...
    Reference: http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/commonhold/practic...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 77

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: The Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 does not operate in Switzerland and "commonhold", whilst having some similarities, is a poor man's translation for the continental system of co-ownership, which is markedly different in many regards
28 mins
  -> So how would you transate the Swiss-German equivalent of Stockwerkeigentum into English - propriété par étages?// I've also given the asker the options of 'strata title' or 'flying freehold' - the latter being the translation used in my ex-law firm.
disagree  Eliza Hall: It's not identical to commonhold/condominium, so that translation is misleading. "Co-owned" is accurate, and imprecise enough to signal the reader that if they want to know exactly how it's held, they'll need to inquire further.
2 hrs
  -> Co-owned could be jointly or separately, so misleading, plus commonhold had never been queried by UK legal clients and condo never by US ones.
disagree  Daryo: on a point of method: what estate agents in UK "can understand" is of limited relevance - if they want to deal with clients abroad they MUST learn how it works abroad. Same as anyone operating in UK better learn the UK system.
13 days
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